Dr. John Boyle: “It was both of our faults" | Letters from Prison

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There is this thing that my uncle had come out with and said that he saw my

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mother three days after she was murdered.

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She came to his office in Washington, DC.

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She confessed to him that she was part of a baby selling ring and a gold

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smuggling ring with the Chinese and all these, her friends were involved

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and all this stuff, all the, just this nonsense has crazy nonsense.

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So.

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My father is obviously planning the season.

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I ended up finding out and I'll probably talk about this in another episode later

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on the program, where there were certain things that my father did with his course

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of control over his brother and sister.

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And so I think that my father influenced my uncle and look, my uncle worked

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for the department in the Navy.

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Um, there is this course of control that these people have with them and it has to

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do, it's linked always to some sort of.

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The testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal

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trial in Richland county history.

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Dr.

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John Boyle is accused of killing his wife, Marine and burying

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her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania.

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The 12 year old son lively took the stand I heard, but it's about this loud.

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We have a jury find the defendant guilty when I was 12 years.

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My testimony sent my father to prison for murdering my mother.

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This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for

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myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced

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deception, betrayal, and dark trial.

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I'm Collier Landry and this is moving past.

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Hey movers.

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Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder.

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I am your host.

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Collier Landry and Hey, what's going on?

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We know what's going on.

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What's going on.

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yes, probably.

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Shouldn't I don't know if I can sing that or not, but anyways.

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They have it.

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Um, I don't know.

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Anyways, happy Friday, I'm in a good mood and I hope you guys are

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too, because remember life is too short and also life is a matter of

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perspective to choose yours wisely.

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I'm coming up with all these little quips as I go into this podcast.

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And as I explore this new medium of content creation, and it's super cool

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that you guys are all on the journey with me and for those of you that are

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on the journey and that joined my IgE.

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Every Tuesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM.

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Eastern time.

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I love seeing you guys there.

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That's all my Instagram channel at call your Landry.

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Also for those of you that are really diving in and helping support the program.

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I have a Patrion account, which is http://www.patreon.com/collierlandry

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or you can go to my website, www.collierlandry.com for all

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things moving past murder.

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And of course, subscribing and liking on the YouTube channel.

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Subscribe on apple podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, go to Spotify,

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check it out wherever you get your.

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Your support is greatly appreciated.

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Thank you guys so much.

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Um, that's the spiel.

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We're going to get into another exciting episode today.

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And I have a letter to read.

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Somebody reached out to me on the gram, and I'm going to put on my, for those

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of you watching my reading glasses, because as you guys know, I am farsighted

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and these help, uh, five for $12.

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Somebody who was curious the other day, five, $12 on Amazon.

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Anyways, this one comes from Michelle K five.

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And she reached out to me on Instagram a couple of weeks ago, says Collier.

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I am sitting here watching a murder and Mansfield, and I am having many memories

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flood my mind of my narcissistic father.

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I'm sorry to hear that.

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Although he never committed murder, he did have serial affairs.

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Wal-Mart married to my mother.

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My father was also just a horrible person.

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What pushed me to reach out to you was the letter he wrote

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back to you about how evil.

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I also received a similar letter from my father.

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It is sad to have experienced my father.

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However, your story was one that touched me as my life

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could have been so much worse.

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Heard that before the way you have made yourself a better life

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than his is your best revenge.

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I think you are a pretty amazing person.

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Your mom would be proud.

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Thank you for your story and thank you for being.

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Keep living a positive life.

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Well, um, Michelle, thank you so much for saying that.

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That's really cool.

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I love hearing that.

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Uh, what I'm doing is resonating with you guys, my audience, and wow.

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Yeah.

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The, and I'm really sorry to hear that your father is a narcissist and was

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having cereal affairs against your mother.

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I mean, oh boy.

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I think this is always just such a, I mean, The world is a crazy place.

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Right?

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So, um, I don't know what to say.

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My father did write me a letter saying that I was evil again.

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I, you know, I don't know what possesses a person's write that to a, what was that?

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Probably like 12, 13, whatever, a son whose mother he murdered.

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Um, who knows, but who am I here?

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Who am I?

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Who am I to judge?

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Um, But I have experienced it.

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It is a real thing.

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And narcissist and sociopath kind of suck.

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Oh, I will be at crime con the end of April, April 29th.

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May 1st, something like that.

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And May 1st, ironically, is that horrible sociopath's birthday.

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My father will turn 79 this year.

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And, um, wow.

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But we're going to get into that in another episode.

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Um, but for those of you go to Chrome con, come check it out.

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I am not speaking.

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I'm not doing anything.

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I am literally going there for the first time to walk around as a

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normal human being and check it out.

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I see what happens and promote the podcast and meet people who may have

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seen me on forensic files or seen a murder in Mansfield or better yet.

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Listen, and watch the podcast.

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Can you believe that?

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Oh, okay.

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That would be super cool.

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So I'm looking forward to connecting with all of you guys there.

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So on that note of Michelle's questions, I have my pulled out of my bin of goodies.

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And for those of you that might be new to the program.

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Um, I have.

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All of my father's letters from prison.

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And they span a period of about 31 years, 30 years, 29 years, something like that.

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It is a long time and there's about 500 of them.

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So I randomly pick one and I read them, uh, on this program

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and I've never read them before.

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Well, I read them when I was a child or, and, and for those of you that are

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curious because of the content of the.

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My adoptive parents, making sure that my father wouldn't manipulate me,

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always pre-read the letters before they gave them to me for the most part.

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Um, and so, you know, when I was a minor, uh, they tried to look out for

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me and that was really cool of them.

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Um, but as an adult, I get to actually read them with an adult frame of

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mind and as someone who is doing his best to live his best life and

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not doing it in revenge against my.

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I'm sorry, Michelle will tell you that because I want to live a good life

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just for me and a little bit from my mom, but I want to be, uh, you know,

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I just want to have a good life.

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Um, but I'm going to dive into one of these letters.

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So I'm going to pull, I'll pull this one off the top and we're

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going to check it out because of.

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This one, this one has this one that has a card in it or something.

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And this one came when my father was still at war and correctional

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institution, which is in Lebanon, Ohio.

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There's like Lebanon correctional institution.

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Then there's Warsi I think, which is in Warren, Ohio, then there's Lebanon.

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And like I said, in Lebanon, Ohio, and all that.

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Um, so we're going to delve into this right now.

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Should we do it?

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Let's do it.

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All right.

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So.

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Trustee, Amazon reading glasses are going to get put on.

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I'm going to clean them first, but this way I can actually

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read the material properly.

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Okay.

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So there is a letter.

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All right.

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Oh, and here's something.

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Okay.

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So this was, I'm sorry, this was dated.

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There's no, there's no a postal stamp on the envelope.

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So I really don't know when this was sent out.

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Okay.

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Ooh, very nice artwork.

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I don't know if you guys can see that or not.

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Oh, really?

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Are we not?

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Autofocusing now.

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Oh, camera anyways.

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For those of you watching, it's a bear.

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It's a bird.

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It's an owl.

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It says some are very, very wise.

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Okay.

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And some are not, oh, the irony of all this stuff, it's just amazing.

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Some are very, very wise.

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My father was not one of those.

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Some are very, oh, and there's a giraffe and there is, oh my, oh my goodness.

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oh, wow.

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This is like toad.

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Oh my goodness.

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there's a lot of hidden little messages in this one.

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This is kind of cool.

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Okay.

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So, um, well it's not cool.

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It's kind of sad actually, but, um, so for those of you that are

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watching, so we have the bear.

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And for those of you that aren't watching narrate what this says, obviously.

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Um, so when I opened up the, the envelopes of the card and it's, and you can get

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cards made in prison, you can, everybody makes everything in prison for those

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of you that might not know, like you can get pretty much anything in prison.

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Um, in one degree or another, it's sort of like how much money do you

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want to pay or what do you want to do?

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Or what do you want to trade?

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What favors, whatever those favors may be.

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Hey, I don't know.

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Um, It's an interesting place for sure.

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Uh, but yeah, this says, so there's a bear.

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There's like I said, there's a bear.

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There's like a, I don't know, a little parrot, there's an owl.

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And then on the inside, there's a draft and a tiger.

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So we're going to, so the bear says some sons are unbearable.

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Maybe he's talking to me and some are kind of flighty and some are very, very wise.

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Unlike my.

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And some act high and mighty.

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Wow.

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Like, is that a, um, wow, that's a real thing, huh.

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But some are downright girl.

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Great.

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And special.

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Just like you call your, my love and thoughts are always with you.

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Love daddy and there you have it.

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And autofocusing is slow, but yeah, there you go.

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For those of you watching on YouTube, you can see this.

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Oh.

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And he dates the back of the card with his doctor signature

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and slowly coming into focus.

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Yeah, it has his doctor signature 1294.

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So this was, uh, okay, so this was obviously December, 1994.

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Love daddy X, X.

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Oh, oh, Hmm.

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Well, That is super interesting, um, and full of Hindu, hidden innuendos, like

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your flighty or your high and mighty.

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I will take that at face value.

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Oh boy.

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Um, alright.

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This letter is Tuesday evening, 22nd, November, 1994, dear.

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Well son, here I am again with another card thought you

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might appreciate my thoughts.

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Hope you are doing fine.

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I just cannot begin to tell you how much I miss.

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You are growing so well, so handsome and strong and intelligent.

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I am really proud of you now, for those of you who remember that earlier

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episode, like a few episodes ago, my father was sent, I had sent a letter

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around the same time period, ironically, um, Comedy how handsome I was and my,

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uh, homecoming date at the time and all these just kind of bizarre things.

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Um, and then he was at that, he decided to sort of gaslit me and

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tell me how he was a great father.

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And I don't need to tell him that he was a great father and he was always

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really good to myself and my mother and even his girlfriend who impregnated

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while he was married to my mother.

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Was jealous of both my mother and myself, because he took such good care of us.

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Whew.

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Uh, it takes a special kind of person to write those things after

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killing someone's mother, but it happened and, you know, wow.

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So, you know, I don't know when I dig into these letters, I just kind of, I

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remembering this time in my life and I always say, and I said, in the last

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episode, I said, what was the ask?

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Like, what's he looking for?

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And he wants, and around this time period, like I said before, And the

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other episode, he was talking to me around that time because he was trying

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to butter me up because he wanted me to, if I remember correctly, he wanted

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me to rescind, rescind my testimony and say that I was coerced by the

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prosecutor and by the detective, Dave MES more to testify against him.

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And not only that, but also to fabricate all of these lies and

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that I didn't really hear him.

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Slammed my mother's body against the wall or, well, what I now know, smashed

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the back of her skull into, and that she really did well at that time.

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She ran out after throwing Kara credit cards at him, that was a story and

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went into the car, into the driveway.

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And then that story has actually had an evolution over the many

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years that he's been incarcerated.

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And then lately, as you've seen in the movie, a murder Mansfield, he says

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that she came at him with a knife and he pushed her and she hit her head.

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Downstairs, not upstairs right outside my bedroom door.

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That's where we're at in this stage of life with my father.

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And, um, it's interesting.

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Okay.

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So second paragraph.

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So many thoughts cross my mind as I glance at the visiting room and

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think about how short our time was.

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I missed you and would hope you would return when your

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schedule and Georgia's permits.

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Okay.

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So my adoptive father, George.

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Who's in a murder Mansfield, as you've seen.

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Um, he, uh, would take me, or I don't know, I actually don't know how many

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times he took me to go visit my father, but as crazy as this might sound and as

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crazy as the situation was my adopted parents, Georgia, Susan Ziglar were very

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much in support of me trying to have.

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As best of a relationship as I could have with my father, whatever that

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looked like, because, um, I think.

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I think that deep down inside, they, they didn't want this man in my life,

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but, but I think that, or I know that they just really didn't want to be those

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parents that were like, well, you can't see your father because blah, blah, blah.

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Um, and I think that was honestly a very smart move on their part because

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I think that they knew that that could quite possibly come back to

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breed resentment on them, perhaps.

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I don't know.

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Um, because I think.

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A lot of times, when I think about my friends who have parents who are

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divorced, for example, there becomes like this back and forth, uh, with the

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parents and they kind of, they kind of ping pong the kids back and forth.

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Like, I don't want you to say, oh, you're not going to see your father.

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I'll be back.

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And even myself in my life, And the brief time between my, my mother was

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filed for divorce from my father.

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And when she was murdered, there was like, it was getting nastier and nastier.

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Like my, my father came home or I spent any time with my father.

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He would say, how's that bitch of your mother or your whore, your mother saying,

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and then my mother would say like, how's that asshole of your father doing and

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how how's his whore or whatever it was, which I mean, Was that right to do?

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No, it's not right, but it is very human.

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I mean, it really is.

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And like at the end of the day, what are you gonna do?

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Um, we're all just trying to make it.

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And I think that's one of the things that I've had to come to grips with

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as an adult is that I was put in this, you know, precarious position,

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if you will, um, or predicament or whatever we want to call it.

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I mean, You know, my, my parents, I think, I probably think it like a lot of times.

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And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this guys, but I think a lot of times,

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um, we grow up like idolizing our parents.

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I think we all do it.

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Right.

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We want to be like our mother or our father.

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And usually it's the same gender as who we are.

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Right.

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So if you're a boy, you want to be like your dad, if you're a girl, you'd want

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to be like your mom for the most part.

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Now I don't know if that's totally true, but that's just my impression.

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It could be wrong, whatever.

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Um, but I think that, um, I think you idolize them.

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You put them on a pedestal a little bit.

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And then as we all get older, we realize that our, our parents are

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just human beings, just like us.

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And they have problems and issues and, and things that go wrong

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and not everything is perfect.

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And they really, at the end of the day, did the best they could with us.

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So I think that we realized that all that to say this, I think that we

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realize they're flawed and when they're flawed, And we accept that because we

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know that we're flawed, then we can sort of, you know, begin to reconcile

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with maybe our feelings of resentment or anger or, or frustration with

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our parents growing up or where our relationship is at now with our parents.

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Now that does not excuse the fact that my father murdered my mother.

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And I'm not saying that I understand his position or where he's coming

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from, or his position of the bullshit that he continually shill.

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In these letters to me as a young man or that he has as an adult, or

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I have, has to me as an adult, I am not excusing any of that saying like,

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oh, we're only human that's okay.

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I forget none and under no, no, no.

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We're all responsible for our own lives.

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First of all.

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And what he did is inexcusable.

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No doubt about it.

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And, and there's, there's no justification for it.

Speaker: 00:18:36

I don't care what it is and there's no justification should have just divorced

Speaker: 00:18:41

my mother and been done with it.

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Um, because look at you now.

Speaker: 00:18:44

I mean, like I said, father is going to turn 79 in a couple of weeks.

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That's a long that's, you know, I like to think that's young.

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Cause I think the average adult age, the average age that a, um, an American adult

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lives is around 78, 79, 77, 78, 79, which has not really increased in the last 20

Speaker: 00:19:07

years, which was interesting because I was reading an article recently about

Speaker: 00:19:10

that, but we're not here to debate that.

Speaker: 00:19:12

Well, we are here to discuss is, um, that's a long time to be in prison.

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So he was court.

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He was officially, he was arrested when he was 46.

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He was incarcerated was 47.

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So that's 32 years that he has been inquiring.

Speaker: 00:19:27

It's a long, long time.

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That is about 32 years too long for my taste.

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Um, if I was a person that was incarcerated, but again, I make

Speaker: 00:19:38

different choices because I am a, uh, sane and normal and

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understanding and empathetic adult.

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Um, and I try to live my life as a good human being.

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And I too am flawed.

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Um, Of the many things we did not discuss, oh boy, here it comes guys of the many

Speaker: 00:19:59

things we did not discuss, but which I feel is important is your mother Oman.

Speaker: 00:20:04

God, we are going there.

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See, and this is my natural reaction because this is

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reading it for the first time.

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Since I was a kid, it is important.

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You know, my feelings about several things in that regard.

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Oh, holy Lord.

Speaker: 00:20:20

As I stated mommy was not my enemy.

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In fact, I always, in spite of our differences, thought of her as my best

Speaker: 00:20:30

friend, obviously the love we once shared for each other turned into another type

Speaker: 00:20:37

of love, but there was time when we loved each other deeply and passionately.

Speaker: 00:20:43

Something just happened along the way.

Speaker: 00:20:46

Something just happened along the way in that love.

Speaker: 00:20:51

Part my fault part, her fault, and this is actually written in his handwriting.

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So this letter, by the way, for those of you that are listening is typed.

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And then my father wrote in his handwriting, which is right here.

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If we can all see yeah, wow.

Speaker: 00:21:07

Part my fault part, her fault.

Speaker: 00:21:10

What part is her fault?

Speaker: 00:21:11

So just really quick.

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So when I was making a murderer.

Speaker: 00:21:15

I'm doing pre-production.

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I did speak to my father's sister, um, who I hadn't seen in 25 years,

Speaker: 00:21:23

probably 23, like a very long time.

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And one of the things she confided in me, um, or she was telling me, cause I,

Speaker: 00:21:31

cause when I actually talked to these relatives, like after, you know, saying

Speaker: 00:21:38

like, why haven't I ever heard from you?

Speaker: 00:21:40

Um, is.

Speaker: 00:21:42

Well, like what was my mom like?

Speaker: 00:21:45

And she really gave you some amazing information.

Speaker: 00:21:47

I think I've shared this before, but I found out that my mother, I knew my mother

Speaker: 00:21:50

was a dental hygienist, but I never knew that my mother supported my father while

Speaker: 00:21:52

he was in medical school, because she was making $25 an hour as a dental hygienist.

Speaker: 00:21:57

And in the sixties and seventies, that's a lot of money.

Speaker: 00:21:59

It's still, you know, a decent amount of money these days.

Speaker: 00:22:02

Um, it was higher than minimum wage that's for sure.

Speaker: 00:22:04

But it's definitely a living wage.

Speaker: 00:22:06

I th I think, I hope maybe not in the recession.

Speaker: 00:22:08

Maybe not when gas is $6 a gallon in California, but it, it used to be.

Speaker: 00:22:13

But I think that, um, that was a really cool thing.

Speaker: 00:22:16

You know, I got to hear these amazing stories about my mom, what a resilient,

Speaker: 00:22:20

what an awesome, amazing person she was and how dedicated she was as

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a wife, as a partner, as a friend.

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It's really cool.

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It makes me feel really good.

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On the flip side, I.

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Got to find out certain things about my father, um, that I didn't know.

Speaker: 00:22:35

And there were many horrible things which I will share it over the

Speaker: 00:22:37

course of this program as I often do.

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But one of the things was, is that my father, my mother and my, my

Speaker: 00:22:42

aunt shared with me a story that.

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Her family would go, um, every year, like a lot of, um, a lot

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of families do on the east coast or especially like Philadelphia,

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New York city, New Jersey areas.

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They go to like the Jersey shore.

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I know there's a very famous television show about all that

Speaker: 00:22:57

and all the shenanigans that go on, but there's also a really nice

Speaker: 00:22:59

part where just normal families go.

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Right.

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And, uh, so Jersey shore, they were at like a little beach

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house for a week and stay.

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And there was like a vacation that had happened with the family.

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And it was like when my father was like 18 or 19 and he and my mother

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were dating something like that 18, 19 20, and my mother had this like

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sneaky spidey sense sort of thing.

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And I was like, where's Jack, what's he doing?

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And she went down to the vacation house from Philadelphia and showed up

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on the doorstep of the vacation home and said to my aunt where's Jack.

Speaker: 00:23:33

For the duty to know my father's name is John, but he goes by Jack where's Jack.

Speaker: 00:23:37

And my aunt was like, I don't know.

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And I don't want to get in the middle of it.

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Like just kind of like, oh boy, here's the angry girlfriend.

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And, uh, and my father was off with another girl that he had met and

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that's why my mother came down.

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She couldn't get ahold of him and she knew his Shannon again.

Speaker: 00:23:51

So what I had found out and he was why I'm sharing this is I had found

Speaker: 00:23:54

out that my father was having a flare.

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And relationships with other women while he was courting.

Speaker: 00:23:59

My mother, not just married, but before in the courting process and the dating

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process, he was having other girlfriends because he was completely incapable of

Speaker: 00:24:08

being faithful and look infidelities.

Speaker: 00:24:12

It happens, but a serial infidelity in serial adulterer, much like

Speaker: 00:24:17

our friend Michelle was sharing about her father, um, is a thing.

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And it's also a very big, uh, um, trait of, or a very common trait of the, um,

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of the narcissist and sociopath sort of thing, because they always want that

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attention and this and this and this and this and shiny new things, shiny

Speaker: 00:24:33

new objects, Feb, shiny new objects.

Speaker: 00:24:36

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:24:38

So it's a lot to swallow.

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So it was very interesting that he says, oh, and it's also her fault

Speaker: 00:24:41

too, because I don't see how that is because it was such a, it had been

Speaker: 00:24:46

going on for so long at that point.

Speaker: 00:24:48

But let's dive in more.

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I mean, you know, all, these are the layers I get into like, you know,

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two to three paragraphs in, and I'm having enemy, I've spoken the whole,

Speaker: 00:24:57

you know, I've taken up all your time and we're not even there yet.

Speaker: 00:25:01

Oh boy.

Speaker: 00:25:02

I feel mommy was not always her own person for summary.

Speaker: 00:25:07

She seemed to be on her own track, her own focus.

Speaker: 00:25:12

I suspect the cause of that was mommy wanted something else,

Speaker: 00:25:17

perhaps the quote, see stories about the princess life effected her.

Speaker: 00:25:22

I do not know for certain, I don't know what sea stories are, but maybe y'all

Speaker: 00:25:28

can Google that and I'll know, they'll know what a sea story is, but, um, wow.

Speaker: 00:25:38

She was on her own track.

Speaker: 00:25:40

So I'm somebody who likes a strong woman.

Speaker: 00:25:44

I like somebody who has their act together.

Speaker: 00:25:46

I might not always choose those partners in my life, but it is definitely

Speaker: 00:25:49

something that I'm interested in.

Speaker: 00:25:51

But I know that that is not traditional sort of that time

Speaker: 00:25:54

period of American life, you know?

Speaker: 00:25:59

Suzy homemaker or whatever they say, you know, brothers will help her.

Speaker: 00:26:03

I don't, I don't know whatever, play a very pleasant fill sort of thing.

Speaker: 00:26:05

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:26:06

Um, but it seems that my father might have been threatened by her.

Speaker: 00:26:09

I mean, that's clearly what he's saying.

Speaker: 00:26:10

Uh, because she is on her own track and her own focus.

Speaker: 00:26:14

I don't really know.

Speaker: 00:26:15

Was she not, um, uh, doting him enough for his, a massive narcissistic

Speaker: 00:26:20

sociopath, sociopathic ego who knows?

Speaker: 00:26:25

Um, wow.

Speaker: 00:26:28

Oh boy.

Speaker: 00:26:29

Okay.

Speaker: 00:26:31

This is very direct.

Speaker: 00:26:32

I do not believe in my heart that your mother was evil.

Speaker: 00:26:36

I do think she was quote misguided in some things, but her intents were

Speaker: 00:26:40

never evil to anyone that is not the picture I have of mommy in my mind.

Speaker: 00:26:45

And certainly not the picture of the woman.

Speaker: 00:26:48

Yes, there are some things I do not know about mommy.

Speaker: 00:26:51

I always thought I knew her, but must admit that is not correct, but

Speaker: 00:26:56

for our purposes here, I want you to know that mommy is a good woman.

Speaker: 00:27:00

She always wanted the best for you and quote.

Speaker: 00:27:04

And I think for me also, there were.

Speaker: 00:27:08

I think for me, she always wanted the best for you.

Speaker: 00:27:10

And I think for me also, she only fell into her adventures out of what I believe

Speaker: 00:27:16

was a sense of desperation with control.

Speaker: 00:27:19

One thing I do know was that mommy always wanted control of everything.

Speaker: 00:27:23

Ha just see her start her characteristic, I guess, or yeah.

Speaker: 00:27:29

Wow.

Speaker: 00:27:31

One thing I do know was that mommy wanted quote, control over everything.

Speaker: 00:27:35

Ha just her characteristic, I guess.

Speaker: 00:27:40

I think it is important.

Speaker: 00:27:41

You know this about mommy and that someone close to her like me, that doesn't my

Speaker: 00:27:47

father tells you this exclamation point.

Speaker: 00:27:51

I do indeed think mommy was under some kind of.

Speaker: 00:27:55

Whether it was the adoption or money or whatever it was.

Speaker: 00:27:59

I think she was under a perceived pressure.

Speaker: 00:28:02

I use the term quote perceived because I think she was the recipient

Speaker: 00:28:06

of a reel of real bad vibes from Regan Bach and Margie temperament.

Speaker: 00:28:10

This is just my opinion, as I have no real facts to support this.

Speaker: 00:28:14

Or to support this theory, but in spite of what you hear and read,

Speaker: 00:28:19

you will note that I have not said anything bad about mommy to anyone.

Speaker: 00:28:24

I am just as confused as you are about her conduct.

Speaker: 00:28:28

Remember this fact, mommy loves you very much.

Speaker: 00:28:31

I would never do anything knowingly or conscientiously to harm you.

Speaker: 00:28:35

And I believe to harm me.

Speaker: 00:28:39

I just wanted to share these sentiments with you about mommy.

Speaker: 00:28:41

It is important.

Speaker: 00:28:42

You know, this well bumper I'm off to write another letter and hit the books.

Speaker: 00:28:47

Hopefully you are doing the same right.

Speaker: 00:28:50

Soon.

Speaker: 00:28:50

Visit sooner much love X, X.

Speaker: 00:28:53

Oh, ELL daddy.

Speaker: 00:28:59

Um, woo.

Speaker: 00:29:04

Oh man.

Speaker: 00:29:05

That is a, um, Wow.

Speaker: 00:29:09

That is, that is, that's a doozy right there.

Speaker: 00:29:11

So I'm going to give a little background.

Speaker: 00:29:12

So this is November, 1994, and I think at this time, so, uh, like I said, my

Speaker: 00:29:18

father was trying to get this, um, uh, this appeal happening and I believe

Speaker: 00:29:25

at around this time, there was the.

Speaker: 00:29:28

Richland county Gazette sort of thing happening that was being put out

Speaker: 00:29:33

in these letters and these little fake newspapers that were made.

Speaker: 00:29:37

Um, and clearly they were like coming from my father, but they were

Speaker: 00:29:41

talking about, uh, the, uh, detective David mass more and suggesting these

Speaker: 00:29:46

things have affairs with my mother.

Speaker: 00:29:47

And then the prosecutor, James J.

Speaker: 00:29:50

Mayer Jr.

Speaker: 00:29:51

Uh, wanting things for political motives.

Speaker: 00:29:53

There was all this nonsense.

Speaker: 00:29:54

I'm going to have to find these so I can read them on the program because they were

Speaker: 00:29:57

really fascinating because he tried to get this appeal and then there's all these

Speaker: 00:30:01

things coming out that are happening.

Speaker: 00:30:04

And they are clearly his doing by the way.

Speaker: 00:30:06

And I believe also at this time, my uncle, my father's brother, Charles,

Speaker: 00:30:11

or CJ, as he was known by my mother.

Speaker: 00:30:14

And he was also my mother's best friend and my godfather.

Speaker: 00:30:17

Ask me when the last time I have spoken to him.

Speaker: 00:30:20

Well, it's every time that I tried to call him or get ahold

Speaker: 00:30:22

of him, he doesn't talk to me.

Speaker: 00:30:24

Um, but he's my godfather.

Speaker: 00:30:25

So for those of you that are good Catholics, when you take that oath

Speaker: 00:30:27

to be a godfather of someone, um, and look after them through thick

Speaker: 00:30:32

and thin, no matter what, till death do us part, but not really.

Speaker: 00:30:36

Um, some people don't take that as seriously as others.

Speaker: 00:30:41

So that's a very interesting thing.

Speaker: 00:30:42

So I never really hear from him at all.

Speaker: 00:30:45

He works for the Navy.

Speaker: 00:30:46

Um, and I guess I can talk about on this program cause you know what, screw it.

Speaker: 00:30:48

I did talk to him during COVID because my father had COVID in prison as some

Speaker: 00:30:53

of you know, and, um, I was checking on him and I did call him to say this.

Speaker: 00:30:58

And then I called him back later.

Speaker: 00:30:59

Cause it was during COVID and I was drinking at that time.

Speaker: 00:31:02

As you guys know, I've been sober for a year and a half, but you

Speaker: 00:31:05

know, during COVID everybody kind of went off the rails.

Speaker: 00:31:08

I am not exempt from that back.

Speaker: 00:31:10

Um, and, uh, yeah, I called him and I think I let him have it.

Speaker: 00:31:14

And I was trying to get a rise out of him.

Speaker: 00:31:15

Cause I'm like, you don't even give me any emotion.

Speaker: 00:31:18

Um, because every time I communicate with him, he's like, oh, what's going on?

Speaker: 00:31:20

And he's not like, he's not like, well, let's go.

Speaker: 00:31:22

We don't do, he doesn't do that.

Speaker: 00:31:23

He's like, well, who's cool.

Speaker: 00:31:24

And who's opening the little Hills.

Speaker: 00:31:27

You forget to corals junior rolled through in California.

Speaker: 00:31:29

He literally asked me that one time.

Speaker: 00:31:30

Oh, corals Jr.

Speaker: 00:31:31

Makes a good burger.

Speaker: 00:31:32

First of all, I don't eat fast.

Speaker: 00:31:34

And, um, yeah.

Speaker: 00:31:36

Uh, no, I don't get to Carl's Jr.

Speaker: 00:31:38

That's not what I want to talk about.

Speaker: 00:31:40

Um, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:31:41

I look, I'm sitting here making fun of it and, and I, there is a

Speaker: 00:31:44

little bit of anger with my family.

Speaker: 00:31:46

Of course, my birth family, because of just me being the adult and then

Speaker: 00:31:53

me being the child that took the role of adult and them acting like a

Speaker: 00:31:56

bunch of children that just ran away.

Speaker: 00:31:57

But again, I always, I talked about the beginning of the program,

Speaker: 00:32:00

the resentment and the sort of things that you carry in life.

Speaker: 00:32:02

You don't want to, you don't want to carry those resentments.

Speaker: 00:32:04

You just kind of go, you know, look, we're all human.

Speaker: 00:32:06

We all have flaws.

Speaker: 00:32:07

And, and a murder happened and people lost their fucking minds.

Speaker: 00:32:11

Let's just keep it real.

Speaker: 00:32:12

So in that note, there was this rich, there's this thing that my uncle had

Speaker: 00:32:16

come out with and said that he saw my mother three days after she was murdered.

Speaker: 00:32:20

She came to his office in Washington, DC.

Speaker: 00:32:23

She confessed to him that she was part of a baby selling rate.

Speaker: 00:32:27

Gold smuggling ring with the Chinese and all these, her friends were

Speaker: 00:32:32

involved and all this stuff, all that, just this nonsense is crazy nonsense.

Speaker: 00:32:36

So my father's obviously planning this season.

Speaker: 00:32:39

I ended up finding out and I'll probably talk about this in another

Speaker: 00:32:41

episode later on the program.

Speaker: 00:32:43

And I'll talk about with somebody who's more of a special.

Speaker: 00:32:46

Where there were certain things that my father did with his course of

Speaker: 00:32:48

control over his brother and sister.

Speaker: 00:32:50

And so I think that my father influenced my uncle and looked, my uncle worked

Speaker: 00:32:54

for the department in the Navy.

Speaker: 00:32:56

He was a nuclear submarine, um, uh, like systems analyst.

Speaker: 00:33:00

So his, he had like top secret clearance and it was like real like Tom Clancy, shit

Speaker: 00:33:05

that he was involved in like, like legit.

Speaker: 00:33:08

And he was stationed in Wales and Wales was a big Naval submarine

Speaker: 00:33:12

place for the United States or base for the United States.

Speaker: 00:33:15

A lot of you know, that, uh, if you know your sort of logistics in the world, um,

Speaker: 00:33:21

and yeah, so he had all the security.

Speaker: 00:33:23

So he making up these things, I think, you know, obviously it's like mind control

Speaker: 00:33:27

sort of stuff, uh, because the abuse.

Speaker: 00:33:30

Which I ended up finding out as an abuser or the person that has this coercive

Speaker: 00:33:34

control over you, whether it's your brother or your lover or your, um, or, you

Speaker: 00:33:39

know, sister, father, mother, boyfriend, whatever, girlfriend, whatever it is.

Speaker: 00:33:43

Um, there is this course of control that these people have or them, and it, it

Speaker: 00:33:47

has to do, it's linked always to some sort of trauma, whether they put them

Speaker: 00:33:50

through that trauma or they bring up that trauma every time that they talk

Speaker: 00:33:53

to them, it's really, really crazy.

Speaker: 00:33:55

It's uh, it's, it's very insidious.

Speaker: 00:33:59

And it's, it's shocking.

Speaker: 00:34:01

So point for saying, this is my uncle was literally.

Speaker: 00:34:06

Risking his, his clearance and his, uh, you know, in his reputation, in

Speaker: 00:34:11

the Navy, uh, to write these letters and, and say these stories that

Speaker: 00:34:15

were absolutely 100% fabricated.

Speaker: 00:34:18

And we now know that because my father is like admitted to pushing

Speaker: 00:34:20

my mother and she hit her head cause he was coming out where her with

Speaker: 00:34:22

the knife and that's what happened.

Speaker: 00:34:24

I mean, that's obviously not the truth, but, uh, you know, so it's

Speaker: 00:34:27

just so we know it's completely fabricated and that she was dead.

Speaker: 00:34:31

And so it's interesting because I watched this, this film called bad.

Speaker: 00:34:36

Uh, recently, and it is a documentary about this woman.

Speaker: 00:34:38

I think her name is Sariah or something.

Speaker: 00:34:40

She owned a vegan restaurant in Manhattan that was really popular as celebrities.

Speaker: 00:34:44

All these people are very amazing vegan restaurant and she, um, had all these,

Speaker: 00:34:49

uh, you know, you had involved this guy and she, this whole moves very beautiful.

Speaker: 00:34:53

She involved this very dumpy looking guy in her life.

Speaker: 00:34:56

Look, whatever people.

Speaker: 00:34:59

Um, but he, and they got married, but they weren't like in a romantic marriage,

Speaker: 00:35:03

but it was a marriage of convenience and he claimed he had money, but he cleaned,

Speaker: 00:35:06

he's a secret agent and all this stuff.

Speaker: 00:35:07

And she had her do this wacky stuff.

Speaker: 00:35:09

And granted like some of the things she did, she, but w.

Speaker: 00:35:14

All I had to say this.

Speaker: 00:35:15

She was clearly under a spell and I feel that these people that have

Speaker: 00:35:18

these coercive control things and look, we know we spoke to Tara Newell.

Speaker: 00:35:21

We're speaking to Deborah Newell.

Speaker: 00:35:22

We, we we've talked to psychologists in this program like Dr.

Speaker: 00:35:25

Dennis Devin.

Speaker: 00:35:26

. We are talking to people.

Speaker: 00:35:27

I just was on a podcast called strictly stalking, which my

Speaker: 00:35:30

episode is coming out soon.

Speaker: 00:35:32

Um, But we're talking about like the chorus of control and the manipulation

Speaker: 00:35:35

that these people have when they violate you and whatever that is, whatever

Speaker: 00:35:38

that violation looks like, whether they were molesting you or whether they

Speaker: 00:35:41

were just abusing you or whether they were just had this, like, hold on you.

Speaker: 00:35:45

I mean, look at like financial crimes, right?

Speaker: 00:35:49

Which is what this bad vegan is about.

Speaker: 00:35:50

She stiffed her old waiting staff in the restaurant went under and all

Speaker: 00:35:53

this it's very unfortunate, really unfortunate for the people that

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were the collateral damage, like the workers that depended on their wages.

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You know, it's not cool when you don't pay people.

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Um, for those of you listening on payment, um, just kidding.

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Uh, No seriously, there is a lot of, uh, a lot to be said about that and the

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way that they can manipulate people.

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And my father has like a, it's like a spell that you're under.

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It's like a voodoo or which doctor, you know, it's like this, oh man, it's bad.

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It's really bad.

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And, um, It's a real thing.

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And so anyways, they were putting out these like Richland county, gazettes

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the Mansfield Gazette, like all these like printed up on a printer thing and

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putting them in people's mailboxes.

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I don't know who was doing it.

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My father was a massive mail campaign to smear the prosecutors, smear

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the detective to smear my mother.

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And then so obviously.

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All that to say this, he's obviously talking about all of this and

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trying to pretend he's a good guy.

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And he's looking out for my feelings in case I read these things.

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He has, you know, his way of him distancing himself from

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these activities that he clearly was perpetrating by the way.

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I mean just what I think.

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And as an adult, and again, for those of you that don't know, I have not

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read these letters since I was a kid and, and a child doesn't understand

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this, but it plants those seeds, the seeds of manipulation and, and.

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Th deception and it's gaslighting.

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And it's what you thought of your mother, but I'm just

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protecting you and all this stuff.

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And this sorta got this magnanimous tone to it.

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It's just ridiculous.

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It's just bullshit is what it is.

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And it's also really heartbreaking to see this because this is a man

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who sang this to his son, whose mother that he murdered and.

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And then the card, which goes hand in hand with some think there they're high

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and mighty some act high and mighty.

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There are sons that are unbearable.

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There are sums that are sons that are kind of flighty.

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Some are very, very wise and some act high and mighty.

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I mean,

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I guess as I listened to.

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That's a story as I read these to you guys.

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And as I started to think about like what I was going through,

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so I was whatever, 1994.

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So it was like 14 50, 6, 16.

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I was 16 years old, almost 17.

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So I would have been a junior in high school.

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Um, and I was class president that year.

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I would like to class president, which was pretty cool.

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There was all these things.

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And this was around the time that he was, like I said, he was going

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through an appeal and my father was going through an appeal for the murder

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of my mother for his conviction.

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And also he had wanted me to, uh, I, I did, I gave D I gave blood for a

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DNA sample and, um, they were exhuming my mother's body to test the DNA,

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to see if it was her body, because there was all these things that came

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up like her eye color was wrong.

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And look, I have very blue eyes and I have my mother's eyes.

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Unmistakable and, um, that they were brown or whatever now, you know, spoiler alert.

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But when I look at the case file in a murder Amancio with detective

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Lieutenant, uh, early, you know, David mesomorph, um, you know, her eyes

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were like bloodshot because she was bludgeoned in the back of the head.

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So, um, that's maybe why they were brown.

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I don't know.

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Um, in our body, weight was off and all these things and.

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There was doubt.

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There was cast that I don't think could be cast nowadays because we have

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so such advances in forensic science.

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The age of the internet, all these things, communication with different departments

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and things of that nature, but it is, um, you know, he was trying to plant

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these little seeds of doubt to see if he could get me to rescind my testimony.

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I mean, that's, this is all this is about, by the way, just to make it clear.

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This is all about getting me to rescind my testimony.

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Say that I was coerced because I was the person that put him in prison because.

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My testimony, rather, my father put himself in prison.

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Let's be very clear about that.

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I've said that ad nauseum, but without what I ended up finding out with,

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without my testimony, he would have, um, possibly walked free because

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everything was very circumstantial.

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Uh, there was no blood, there was no hair.

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There was no fi like there wasn't a lot of that or any of that

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rather, um, like in the house, the car, from what I understand.

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Um, so.

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Me rescinding my testimony.

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Would've let him walk out of prison.

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Scot-free

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so I guess, I guess my sort of takeaway from this is I'm very

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glad that that didn't happen.

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That I didn't let myself be manipulated and let's just face it.

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You know, my adopted parents, George and Susan were very key in.

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In and they are rubber.

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They let the people, the investigators come in and ask me all these questions.

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Like did Dave take me to a bar.

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It was he giving me beer and all that stuff.

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And though, no, no police officer was not getting me drunk at age 11.

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Um, but all of these things, because we went to a restaurant

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that was a bar, but it like in Ohio, like every restaurant has a bar.

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Like every restaurant has a bar, bowling alleys have bars.

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Um, So it's yeah, it's just really sketchy and I'm really grateful.

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Anyways.

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I'm really grateful.

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I did not rescind my testimony.

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I did not let this man walk free because he, who knows if I had seen

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this and I might've said something different, I did do my best.

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And I did give a benefit of the doubt to what I had seen with the quarters.

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And my father, uh, George took me to, to the place.

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It was like an Akron, Ohio or something.

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We got up really early and I gave this blood and then we waited and all of that.

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But because I was like, well, I'll do this and we'll say, cause it was not our body.

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Then we got a bigger problem, probably the hand, um, which I believe ultimately

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they, uh, they tested the DNA of my mother's sister, but not mine.

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So I might not even be my mother's son and I'm sure.

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And my father has said that before, and I'm sure I'm going to find

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a leather or leather, a letter, one of these days that says that.

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I will tell you 100%.

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I am, I am my mother's son.

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Um, for the simple fact that I look like her and that my mannerisms, when people

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who knew my mother who have come back into my life via Tik TOK or whatever, and

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they knew her, they're like, oh my God.

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You're just like Doreen, which is also a really cool thing to hear

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because I loved my mother very much.

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And I'm glad to know that I'm so much like her and not like my father that.

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That said, um, what do you guys think?

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I mean, look at the end of the day, here's the takeaway that I have for you.

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We all, no matter what, and just like this woman writing to me earlier, uh, you know,

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had to deal with her, her father being a serial womanizer, a serial adulterer.

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Um, we have all been through our stuff and we just hope at the end of the day, that

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we're better versions of our parents and our parents do go through these things.

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But my father literally gaslighting me in this letter

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is so horrific and so terrible.

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Um, that it's beyond the pale, but pretty much everything that man ever

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writes is beyond the pale, because it's always got some sort of agenda tied

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to it because it's all about him not taking accountability for his actions.

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So look, we are all flawed human beings.

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We all go through our own shit stuff, whatever it is, we're not.

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But we sure as hell aren't killing our partners and blaming it on them.

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Um, but I like to hear your thoughts on this episode, because this is a, you know,

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a pretty personal episode to me and I, again, I opened these letters and I don't

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know what's going to be in them sometimes.

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They're like, oh, that's nothing.

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And then sometimes it's really, really very valuable.

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So.

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I think it's all valuable information for you guys.

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I knew what really helps me in my process and what I'm going through as an adult.

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And as I move on in my life and as I move past murder and, um, you know, that's,

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that's it, we're all here to learn a little bit of something and be better

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humans, I think at the end of the day.

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Oh, well, on that note, I'm Collier Landry and this is

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Moving Past Murder, thanks y'all

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this podcast is made possible by support from listeners, just like.

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Please subscribe via apple podcast, Spotify audible.

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