How Jimmy Hoffa’s Kidnapping Inspired Chris Hansen

Chris Hansen: 00:00:01

My job is to get inside this guy's head and to create some

Chris Hansen: 00:00:04

sort of a dialogue that media allows us to understand what goes on in

Chris Hansen: 00:00:08

that head so that we can prevent other people from becoming victims,

Chris Hansen: 00:00:12

you know, and that's the goal of it.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:13

So it is either move past it and I'm not equating with interviewing

Chris Hansen: 00:00:18

a predator with, you know, surviving a relative or a loved one's murder.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:21

It's a different thing, but you just learn how to live with it.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:25

Yeah, you do.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:32

The testimony continued today in the most notorious criminal

Chris Hansen: 00:00:35

trial and Richland county history.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:37

Dr.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:37

John Boyle is accused of killing his wife Marine and burying

Chris Hansen: 00:00:40

her body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania.

Chris Hansen: 00:00:43

The 12 year old son lively took the

Collier Landry: 00:00:45

stand.

Collier Landry: 00:00:45

As I

Collier Landry: 00:00:45

heard

Collier Landry: 00:00:46

a scream I heard, but it's about

Collier Landry: 00:00:48

this loud.

Collier Landry: 00:00:49

We as a jury find the defendant guilty.

Collier Landry: 00:00:52

When I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to prison for murdering.

Collier Landry: 00:00:57

This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for myself.

Collier Landry: 00:01:02

And it is my hope that it helps anyone who has experienced

Collier Landry: 00:01:05

deception, betrayal, and dark trial.

Collier Landry: 00:01:08

I'm Collier Landry and this is moving past murder.

Collier Landry: 00:01:14

Hey movers.

Collier Landry: 00:01:15

What's going on.

Collier Landry: 00:01:16

Welcome back to another episode of moving past murder.

Collier Landry: 00:01:18

I'm your host.

Collier Landry: 00:01:19

Collier Landry.

Collier Landry: 00:01:21

Happy Friday.

Collier Landry: 00:01:22

Happy Friday, everybody.

Collier Landry: 00:01:25

Oh, I'm in a good mood because you know why I have an extra

Collier Landry: 00:01:28

special guest for you guys today.

Collier Landry: 00:01:29

Somebody who I have admired for years, and I've wanted to sit down, I've

Collier Landry: 00:01:33

wanted to take a seat with, but not on that level, but you know what I mean?

Collier Landry: 00:01:37

I've wanted to sit down and pick this man's brain for such a long time.

Collier Landry: 00:01:40

I am so excited to have him on the program, but first I want to thank all

Collier Landry: 00:01:44

of you for every week tuning into my new episodes, whether that's on apple

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podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, audible, wherever you get your podcasts from, or

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watching me on YouTube, where you can click like and subscribe to my channel.

Collier Landry: 00:01:56

Um, I really appreciate your support.

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Extra special.

Collier Landry: 00:01:59

Thank you to those of you who are supporting me on my Patrion page,

Collier Landry: 00:02:03

which is patrion.com forward slash call your Landry, your contributions,

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help support this program and help me bring amazing interviews.

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Like I am today with exclusive people in the true crime world and people that.

Collier Landry: 00:02:17

Really have a great, amazing story to tell I'm so humbled by your support and

Collier Landry: 00:02:21

all the DMS that I get from you guys reaching out and really thanking me

Collier Landry: 00:02:24

for the content, uh, and, and asking questions and engaging with me on my

Collier Landry: 00:02:28

IgE lives, which are every Tuesday, 11:00 AM Pacific 2:00 PM Eastern time.

Collier Landry: 00:02:33

Um, I'm just stoked to have your feedback, uh, because at the end of

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the day, I want to provide content that you guys feel is engaging.

Collier Landry: 00:02:40

D T.

Collier Landry: 00:02:41

I have a special DM that I want to read today from Laura Fetter, she is on

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Instagram and she reaches out and says, Collier just watched a murder Mansfield.

Collier Landry: 00:02:50

So incredibly moved by your story.

Collier Landry: 00:02:52

You're such an emotionally intelligent well-thought warm kind person.

Collier Landry: 00:02:57

Even when your dad is verbally abusing you in, in his letters.

Collier Landry: 00:03:01

After all the trauma you suffered, you still manage to remain

Collier Landry: 00:03:04

calm, measured, and articulate.

Collier Landry: 00:03:06

I just wanted to reach through the screen and give you a big hug.

Collier Landry: 00:03:09

Your whole demeanor and earnestness is endearing.

Collier Landry: 00:03:12

I hope you are very proud of the person.

Collier Landry: 00:03:13

You are accepting that you're not going to get what you crave from somebody who

Collier Landry: 00:03:18

isn't insanely difficult, but also a huge.

Collier Landry: 00:03:22

You can't go to a DIY store and expect to get a loaf of bread from there.

Collier Landry: 00:03:25

Just like you can't go to a psychopath and sociopath and expect

Collier Landry: 00:03:29

truth, compassion and empathy.

Collier Landry: 00:03:31

I wish you all the happiness and success in the future.

Collier Landry: 00:03:34

Thank you, Laura Fenner for reaching out that is, is really wonderful to hear.

Collier Landry: 00:03:39

I'm so glad when you guys see, you know, my film, a murder Mansfield, or you

Collier Landry: 00:03:42

hear the podcast and it moves you and you guys, I want to give you a big hug.

Collier Landry: 00:03:46

I appreciate that.

Collier Landry: 00:03:48

Uh, but no, in all seriousness, um, your support just sending me messages makes

Collier Landry: 00:03:52

me feel like I'm doing the right thing and I'm, and I'm, and I'm contributing

Collier Landry: 00:03:56

to that little, you know, that little bit to society that I I've always wanted

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to do, and really spreading the message and helping you guys move through

Collier Landry: 00:04:03

your own personal trauma by sharing my personal experiences, whether it be

Collier Landry: 00:04:06

through my father's letters, from prison or through my film, or just my kind of

Collier Landry: 00:04:10

general observations of someone who's a survivor in this true crime world.

Collier Landry: 00:04:14

Didn't really ask for it, you know, so anyways, today's episode

Collier Landry: 00:04:18

features a 10 time Emmy award winning journalist and television personality.

Collier Landry: 00:04:23

He is most famous for his show to catch a predator, which has been on for God 18

Collier Landry: 00:04:29

years now running, uh, and he has a new podcast called predators I've caught.

Collier Landry: 00:04:34

Um, so I am so pleased to welcome this management, my program, and

Collier Landry: 00:04:38

I'm ready to take a seat with him.

Collier Landry: 00:04:39

Please welcome Chris Hansen.

Collier Landry: 00:04:42

So you had to catch a predator, which is how I know.

Collier Landry: 00:04:45

I love you.

Collier Landry: 00:04:45

And your work on that.

Collier Landry: 00:04:47

Um, you know, you were just saying 18 years on it's the same story.

Collier Landry: 00:04:53

How do you sort of reconcile with that?

Collier Landry: 00:04:55

As far as seeing the same thing over and over again?

Chris Hansen: 00:05:01

We'll Collier imagined this.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:02

I mean, when we first started doing the predator investigations, we merely

Chris Hansen: 00:05:06

had decoys from an online watchdog group called perverted justice

Chris Hansen: 00:05:11

in chat rooms on AOL and Yahoo.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:13

That was it.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:14

I mean, that was our only means of putting somebody out there to see if in fact an

Chris Hansen: 00:05:19

adult would hit upon them a predator, uh, and try to create a liaison for sex.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:25

Well today, 18 years after their very first investigation, the

Chris Hansen: 00:05:30

amount of social media platforms upon which a potential predator can

Chris Hansen: 00:05:35

approach your child has exploded.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:37

I mean, we're, I can't even keep up with them.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:38

It's not just, you know, uh, Tinder and Snapchat and you know, all

Chris Hansen: 00:05:46

these different hookup type, uh, uh, applications, but there there's so many

Chris Hansen: 00:05:51

others and it's the interactive games.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:53

And we had a case just, uh, a few weeks ago where a 12 year old.

Chris Hansen: 00:05:58

Uh, was approached on Instagram and the predator set up a date in

Chris Hansen: 00:06:03

that her sexually assaulted her.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:06

And it turns out this is just one of, at least three victims that we know.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:09

And this is Instagram where you think your kids are safe.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:12

And during the pandemic, you know, more kids are, have been

Chris Hansen: 00:06:17

online more than ever before.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:18

And that the number of reports of inappropriate approaches between adults

Chris Hansen: 00:06:25

and children has skyrocketed, um, you know, according to the national center

Chris Hansen: 00:06:30

for missing and exploited children, which all these social media platforms,

Chris Hansen: 00:06:33

Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter, they all have to, uh, mandatory

Chris Hansen: 00:06:40

reporting, all have to mandatorily report these things to the national center

Chris Hansen: 00:06:44

for missing and exploited children.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:45

So, you know, it's out there that technology has changed and it's

Chris Hansen: 00:06:50

difficult for the investigators, um, and for our teams to, to keep up.

Chris Hansen: 00:06:55

Cause you're you're

Collier Landry: 00:06:56

you started in radio if I'm correct.

Collier Landry: 00:06:58

Is that, is that right?

Collier Landry: 00:06:59

Long time

Chris Hansen: 00:07:00

ago.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:00

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:07:00

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:07:01

And then obviously you come to, you came to the show as a journalist

Collier Landry: 00:07:05

with that sort of background.

Collier Landry: 00:07:06

I said, you know, it's like one of the things that I think about with you is,

Collier Landry: 00:07:10

you know, when you go, when you're a war journalists, you know, or you're

Collier Landry: 00:07:13

a photographer like a David Burnett, you know, and you're like, who is very

Collier Landry: 00:07:18

famous for Vietnam war photography.

Collier Landry: 00:07:20

And you know, that you go into these situations and you know,

Collier Landry: 00:07:23

what's going to happen, but it doesn't make it any less traumatic

Collier Landry: 00:07:27

or any less, more impactful on you.

Collier Landry: 00:07:29

And well, I guess, you know, this show is called moving past murders.

Collier Landry: 00:07:32

So I'm curious how that affects you and how you move past sort of the same

Chris Hansen: 00:07:37

thing.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:37

And you, you don't really ever move past it.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:40

I mean, you know, before I jumped on with you, I was doing my podcast predators.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:44

I've caught with Chris Hanson.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:46

And in that show, we go back over cases that, that we've

Chris Hansen: 00:07:50

already done four or 500 of them.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:53

And so.

Chris Hansen: 00:07:55

Because during the investigation, you know, we have background on the

Chris Hansen: 00:07:59

guy and we have some information and, you know, I'm in the moment.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:03

Uh, but I don't have the chance to really immerse myself in it

Chris Hansen: 00:08:06

because it happens so quickly.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:08

You know, we're, we're taking people inside the commission

Chris Hansen: 00:08:10

of a felony basically.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:12

And so you have to react and you have to be a Jew you're badged, but the

Chris Hansen: 00:08:16

podcast and going back over these things in, in just immersing myself

Chris Hansen: 00:08:21

in the transcripts, in the interviews, in the police interviews, after I do

Chris Hansen: 00:08:25

the interview with the predator, it brings you right back into that moment.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:30

And it's a very strange experience because it, you know, you don't feel

Chris Hansen: 00:08:37

the trauma of it as you're doing it.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:38

You're just doing it.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:40

But when you go back over and relive it, it takes it to a different level.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:44

Um, and it it's just as intensive, not more.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:47

So going back through the material.

Chris Hansen: 00:08:49

Years after the fact, uh, than it was when you were actually doing it at the

Chris Hansen: 00:08:54

time, you know, you're looking at the guy's hands, are they in his pocket?

Chris Hansen: 00:08:57

Is there a threat, even though I'm surrounded by security and there's

Chris Hansen: 00:09:00

law enforcement there, you know, you're, you're on your, on your

Chris Hansen: 00:09:03

tippy toes, uh, paying attention and trying to figure out, okay, if

Chris Hansen: 00:09:06

I ask you this, what does that say?

Chris Hansen: 00:09:08

What does he say?

Chris Hansen: 00:09:08

And, you know, anybody can jump out of a back room and scare the

Chris Hansen: 00:09:14

hell out of somebody and create 10 seconds of dramatic television.

Chris Hansen: 00:09:17

You know, my job is to get inside this guy's head and to create some sort

Chris Hansen: 00:09:20

of a dialogue that media allows us to understand what goes on in that head

Chris Hansen: 00:09:25

so that we can prevent other people from becoming victims, you know?

Chris Hansen: 00:09:28

And that's the goal of it.

Chris Hansen: 00:09:29

So it is either move past it.

Chris Hansen: 00:09:32

And I'm not equating with interviewing a predator with, you know, surviving

Chris Hansen: 00:09:36

a relative or a loved one's murder.

Chris Hansen: 00:09:37

It's, it's a different thing, but you just learn how to live with it.

Chris Hansen: 00:09:41

Yeah, you do.

Collier Landry: 00:09:44

You do.

Collier Landry: 00:09:45

Um, you know, I first saw the show on YouTube, a like reruns, the people

Collier Landry: 00:09:50

were record and play and you guys were in Petaluma mostly at that time.

Collier Landry: 00:09:53

And it was like tech guys.

Collier Landry: 00:09:55

And they were mostly from like Bangladesh or India.

Collier Landry: 00:09:58

It, it felt like, I mean, there were some white individuals, but

Collier Landry: 00:10:01

it felt like there was in the area.

Collier Landry: 00:10:02

There's a lot of tech people that were coming over and I

Collier Landry: 00:10:06

just remember watching it.

Collier Landry: 00:10:08

And then I remember seeing the repeaters, the people that you've, you know, you're

Collier Landry: 00:10:16

very famous for having the line, take a seat, have a seat, you know, and, and

Collier Landry: 00:10:21

it's just like, how many times do people want to do people want to hear that?

Collier Landry: 00:10:26

And I think that when you don't understand it, when people were

Collier Landry: 00:10:30

just like, oh, what a creeps?

Collier Landry: 00:10:31

Oh, what?

Collier Landry: 00:10:31

Oh, wait, oh, the savages or whatever you want to say about them.

Collier Landry: 00:10:35

And yes they are.

Collier Landry: 00:10:36

But also there has to be a very severe degree of mental illness.

Collier Landry: 00:10:40

I mean,

Chris Hansen: 00:10:42

Well, I think in some cases it's, it's that I think they break

Chris Hansen: 00:10:45

down into, you know, in my experience and I'm not a therapist, but sure.

Chris Hansen: 00:10:50

You know, in dealing with hundreds of these guys over the years, I,

Chris Hansen: 00:10:53

in my experience, they break down into three different categories.

Chris Hansen: 00:10:56

There's the hardcore heavy hitter, you know, the true pedophile

Chris Hansen: 00:11:00

predator who would be doing this with, or without the internet.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:02

You know, the guy who would be at the movie theater, the bad little league

Chris Hansen: 00:11:05

coach, the bad Cub scout master, you know, something along those lines,

Chris Hansen: 00:11:09

those guys, they can't be fixed.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:11

They're going to do this no matter what, and whether they're wired that way, or

Chris Hansen: 00:11:14

whether it's the result of, you know, some traumatic childhood experience, whatever

Chris Hansen: 00:11:18

it is, they're not going to get over it.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:20

And then you've got this younger group of guys who are late teens, early twenties.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:27

Um, it's illegal.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:28

What they're doing, it's wrong.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:30

You can damage a child for life, but they look at it as a Romeo Juliet situation,

Chris Hansen: 00:11:36

but it works out in a couple of years.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:38

It won't be.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:40

And those are the guys who can be intercepted.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:43

I think at some cases and, and reformed opt-out and, and be

Chris Hansen: 00:11:47

monitored and counsel, then get some therapy and never offend again.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:51

And then you've got this interesting group in the middle.

Chris Hansen: 00:11:54

These guys who are predisposed to having a sexual attraction relationship

Chris Hansen: 00:12:01

with a under-aged boy or a girl, but they wouldn't do anything about it.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:05

They wouldn't act on it without the internet, the addictive nature of

Chris Hansen: 00:12:09

the 24 7 access and the anonymity.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:11

They start seeing things online that they wouldn't see face to face.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:14

And suddenly through the course of this conversation and this, this urge

Chris Hansen: 00:12:18

that they either choose not to control or don't control or can't control.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:22

They cross that line between fantasy and reality, and they're knocking on our door

Chris Hansen: 00:12:26

and they show up and we see a lot of that.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:28

And to me, that's the.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:29

Vaccine in the most interesting category here, because, you know,

Chris Hansen: 00:12:33

can you fix somebody like that?

Chris Hansen: 00:12:34

Do you have to lock them up?

Chris Hansen: 00:12:35

Is there a combination of treatment and punishment that works?

Chris Hansen: 00:12:38

And I don't have that answer and I don't know that anybody does.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:41

Yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:12:42

It's

Collier Landry: 00:12:42

interesting.

Collier Landry: 00:12:42

You brought up earlier the video games and all of that.

Collier Landry: 00:12:46

Cause there's some things you just never, you never, you think it's, you know, and

Collier Landry: 00:12:49

especially you think back to the pandemic, I mean, and I believe you were saying

Collier Landry: 00:12:52

this I'm flagrant too, but, and I'm sure you've said it ad nauseum over the last

Collier Landry: 00:12:56

two years, but the pandemic seemed to really, uh, really enhance these predatory

Collier Landry: 00:13:03

situations because people are locked

Chris Hansen: 00:13:06

up.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:06

There's more opportunity, you know, there's more opportunity.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:08

People are locked up, people have more time to do both good and bad things.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:13

And you know, when you talk about statistics, You know, you've got to

Chris Hansen: 00:13:18

trust what the national center for missing and exploited children goes and

Chris Hansen: 00:13:22

says in the records it keeps because that's really kind of the gold standard.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:26

And because there is mandatory reporting on the part of all these

Chris Hansen: 00:13:29

social media platforms, it's a pretty accurate reflection of what's going on.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:34

Um, that doesn't mean it's information that can lead to catching somebody.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:38

It can, but it gives you a kind of an aggregate view of what's

Chris Hansen: 00:13:43

happening and the, in the numbers during the pandemic were staggering,

Chris Hansen: 00:13:46

you know, and, and I don't see the problem going away anytime soon.

Chris Hansen: 00:13:50

And as we continue to develop these, you know, interactive apps and social

Chris Hansen: 00:13:57

media platforms, it's, if we go end to end encryption, that's going to be even

Chris Hansen: 00:14:02

more difficult to track some of this.

Chris Hansen: 00:14:05

So it, it really comes down to, you know, the conversation

Chris Hansen: 00:14:11

you start at home with your.

Chris Hansen: 00:14:13

Uh, or your nieces or your nephews, you know, you got to start at an age

Chris Hansen: 00:14:17

appropriate level and say, look, there are people out there who want to trick you,

Chris Hansen: 00:14:20

grownups kids, don't like to be tricked.

Chris Hansen: 00:14:23

And then as they get older and as their experience online expands, you have

Chris Hansen: 00:14:28

to, you know, have a more explicit and detailed conversation about the safety.

Chris Hansen: 00:14:33

Because look, if you're talking about the drug problem Collier, you know, we

Chris Hansen: 00:14:37

can talk about demand reduction, sure.

Chris Hansen: 00:14:40

Treatment, um, whether we treat it as a felony or whether we treat it as

Chris Hansen: 00:14:45

a disease and you can have a similar conversation with, uh, you know, online

Chris Hansen: 00:14:51

predatory behavior, but there isn't the, the body of treatment available or it's

Collier Landry: 00:14:58

reliable.

Collier Landry: 00:14:59

You're dealing with.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:02

Well, it is except, except, you know, there are

Chris Hansen: 00:15:04

addiction specialists all up and down park avenue here in New York.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:08

Um, there are people who go into medicine to practice all kinds of different

Chris Hansen: 00:15:12

areas, but the practice of studying, um, predators in, in sexual predatory

Chris Hansen: 00:15:20

behavior, it's not a popular place.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:22

I mean, you've got some various dedicated psychiatrists who go into federal

Chris Hansen: 00:15:25

prisons and deal with these guys.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:27

And their base of work is very important in, in very telling, but,

Chris Hansen: 00:15:31

you know, there's not enough of it.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:32

And it's easy to understand why, but that's, you know, that's,

Chris Hansen: 00:15:36

that's one of the issues here.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:38

Um, and that's, you know, we don't have a good handle on how to fix it.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:44

And we want easy answers in our, in our society.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:47

We want, of course, you know, the punishment that works.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:49

We want the treatment that works and it's, it's not that easy.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:54

And so fortunately there are some.

Chris Hansen: 00:15:57

Dedicated bright people working in this field.

Chris Hansen: 00:16:00

And, you know, I plan on having some of them on the podcast, in the, in the

Chris Hansen: 00:16:03

episodes to come to kind of talk about this, to keep this dialogue going.

Chris Hansen: 00:16:07

Because I think at the end of the day, what these investigations have

Chris Hansen: 00:16:10

done, whether it's the predator investigations or any of the other

Chris Hansen: 00:16:13

things that we've done, um, they created dialogue and awareness.

Chris Hansen: 00:16:17

It didn't exist before.

Chris Hansen: 00:16:18

And I think as you know, journalists and filmmakers in your case,

Chris Hansen: 00:16:21

it's, you know, that's our job.

Collier Landry: 00:16:23

That's what we do.

Collier Landry: 00:16:24

The whole reason.

Collier Landry: 00:16:24

I I'm even in Hollywood, I went to school for music at Ohio university,

Collier Landry: 00:16:27

and then I went to Oberlin and I, you know, I dropped out because I

Collier Landry: 00:16:30

didn't want to be a music teacher and I didn't, I wanted to be a performer

Collier Landry: 00:16:33

and I came out to LA, but I really wanted to come out to tell my story.

Collier Landry: 00:16:36

And that's how I ended up getting into filmmaking.

Collier Landry: 00:16:38

But, you know, so that sort of passion really drove me to do that.

Collier Landry: 00:16:46

How did you get in?

Collier Landry: 00:16:47

How does specifically, do you get into catch a predator?

Collier Landry: 00:16:49

You're a journal.

Collier Landry: 00:16:50

I mean, what was your journalistic background leading into that?

Collier Landry: 00:16:52

I mean, did you have you, are you, do I have that personal experience

Collier Landry: 00:16:56

of me just like, you know, I was very obsessed with comes your passion.

Collier Landry: 00:17:00

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:17:00

And, you know, I always felt like, you know, when I pitched the documentary

Collier Landry: 00:17:03

as originally going to be a television series and I said, look, I'm fascinating.

Collier Landry: 00:17:06

The fact that we bad guy goes to jail victim, his dad's take gets

Collier Landry: 00:17:09

this restitution, gavel hits.

Collier Landry: 00:17:10

We go next.

Collier Landry: 00:17:10

We never examined the consequences of violence and the repercussions and

Collier Landry: 00:17:14

ramifications, because at that time nobody was now, it's very cool and

Collier Landry: 00:17:18

very hip to be woke or whatever you want to call it to be very into this.

Collier Landry: 00:17:22

Oh, what happens?

Collier Landry: 00:17:23

What are the implications?

Collier Landry: 00:17:23

Now we're talking about these things that wasn't in fashion 10 years ago, 15

Collier Landry: 00:17:27

years ago, 20 years ago, you know, and yeah, I think it's just what you said.

Collier Landry: 00:17:31

You know, we want a quick answer.

Collier Landry: 00:17:33

We want a quick fix, you know, oh, they're drug addicts move

Collier Landry: 00:17:35

on or, oh, they're a sex addict.

Collier Landry: 00:17:37

Move on.

Collier Landry: 00:17:38

It's a lot.

Collier Landry: 00:17:38

It goes a lot more.

Collier Landry: 00:17:40

It goes a lot deeper than that, but that drove me.

Collier Landry: 00:17:42

Where did you come into this?

Collier Landry: 00:17:44

Like specifically what just happened?

Chris Hansen: 00:17:47

Yeah, I mean, I had been, you know, doing investigative

Chris Hansen: 00:17:50

and crime reporting for, for years, I've been doing this for 40 years.

Chris Hansen: 00:17:54

So I had been at Dateline and doing a lot of different stories.

Chris Hansen: 00:17:57

I mean, you know, the predator work is 10% of my portfolio, you know, but it

Chris Hansen: 00:18:02

just happens to be what has become iconic and so interesting and a part of pop

Chris Hansen: 00:18:07

culture, like nothing else I've ever done.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:09

I always say, you know, I've won 10 Emmy's.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:10

None of them are for predator.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:12

They're all for other reporting.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:14

Uh, but no other body of work has been parodied on south park

Chris Hansen: 00:18:19

and you know, other places.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:21

And so it, you know, it, it looks so you'd take that and you, you use it for all the

Chris Hansen: 00:18:25

good it has and embrace it essentially.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:30

Yeah, I know.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:30

Well, I always tell the story.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:31

You don't mind.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:32

Two older boys went to high school and Canadian.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:36

You know, having a dad on TV, it was no big deal because, you know,

Chris Hansen: 00:18:39

they went to school with kids whose dads were captains of industry and

Chris Hansen: 00:18:42

sports figures and everything else.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:43

But when south park did a Chris Hanson predator parody, suddenly I

Chris Hansen: 00:18:46

was the coolest dad, you know, but, um, you know, I, I, it was, it was

Chris Hansen: 00:18:52

never meant to be its own series.

Chris Hansen: 00:18:54

It was pitched, I pitched it after I became aware of, um, the online

Chris Hansen: 00:19:00

watchdog group, perverted justice, as you know, just a segment on Dateline.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:04

And when I saw the work that perverted justice was doing, I figured if we could

Chris Hansen: 00:19:10

use their decoys, their ability to, uh, be decoys posing as children and chat

Chris Hansen: 00:19:16

rooms and our ability to wire, a house with hidden cameras and microphones,

Chris Hansen: 00:19:20

the result could be pretty compelling.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:22

So I pitched it and, and the, you know, management bought into it and smart

Chris Hansen: 00:19:26

people weighed in to make it better.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:28

And, yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:29

And so we did it in long island and.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:32

In 18 years ago and I was driving out there and I was thinking, you know,

Chris Hansen: 00:19:36

what, if nobody shows up, what if I've just wasted tens of thousands

Chris Hansen: 00:19:39

of dollars of the networks money.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:41

And with that, you know, my producer calls, where the hell are you?

Chris Hansen: 00:19:43

We've got two guys, you know, scheduled to show up in 45 minutes.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:46

And in the next two and a half days, we had 17 guys surface in that investigation,

Chris Hansen: 00:19:52

including a New York city firefighter.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:54

And I thought, wow.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:55

And you know, went by so fast, but I've just stunned.

Chris Hansen: 00:19:59

And we talked about how the story should go and what it was going to look like.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:04

And we had all the stock.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:05

I mean, it was very compelling.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:07

It's like nothing we've ever seen or done before.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:09

And I had done a lot of hidden camera work over the years, but nothing,

Chris Hansen: 00:20:13

nothing where we took the viewer inside the commission of a felony,

Chris Hansen: 00:20:19

where there was a confrontation in.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:21

Remember in those first couple investigations, we didn't

Chris Hansen: 00:20:25

collaborate with law enforcement.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:27

It was just a.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:28

And law enforcement would sometimes go in and be able to make a case

Chris Hansen: 00:20:31

after the fact, but it wasn't until the third investigation that we

Chris Hansen: 00:20:36

actually, uh, collaborated with law enforcement because of the socially

Chris Hansen: 00:20:40

responsible thing to do in it.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:41

And from a television production standpoint, it was unfulfilling to

Chris Hansen: 00:20:45

see these guys leave and just be, you know, twirling their umbrella in the

Chris Hansen: 00:20:48

wind as they'd left the home after trying to rape a child, essentially.

Chris Hansen: 00:20:53

So, um, you know, we, we moved on and, you know, we've adapted it over

Chris Hansen: 00:21:01

the, over the years and, and, um, you know, it's become what it is.

Chris Hansen: 00:21:05

And again, you know, we're on our third version of it, basically

Chris Hansen: 00:21:09

that we're shooting right now.

Collier Landry: 00:21:12

Eh, you know, I mean, it's amazing and it's

Collier Landry: 00:21:17

disheartening at the same time.

Chris Hansen: 00:21:19

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:21:20

'cause it just keeps happening.

Collier Landry: 00:21:22

And I even think, you know, you said, okay, so 18 years ago, it's what 2004.

Collier Landry: 00:21:27

And I leave it.

Collier Landry: 00:21:28

Like I don't, I, I barely remember really using the internet at that time.

Collier Landry: 00:21:32

I Google, you know, Yahoo, that type of thing, but obviously chat rooms is where

Collier Landry: 00:21:37

a lot of this started built or bulletin board systems and things, I suppose.

Collier Landry: 00:21:40

It's just,

Chris Hansen: 00:21:41

yeah, it was chat rooms on AOL and Yahoo.

Chris Hansen: 00:21:43

And then, you know, over the years now, it's, uh, you know, everything from Tinder

Chris Hansen: 00:21:48

and Grindr to, you know, Snapchat and Tik TOK to, um, you know, any other social

Chris Hansen: 00:21:55

media platform where people meet each other and converse Instagram, the, the,

Chris Hansen: 00:22:02

uh, video games, interactive video games.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:05

And a lot of it goes on there and now there's discourt and

Chris Hansen: 00:22:08

you know, a lot of areas where it's, it's difficult to, to mine.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:12

And so it's, it's so ubiquitous that it's hard even to, I mean, we have

Chris Hansen: 00:22:16

the, the figures, as I mentioned from the, uh, Nick Meg, the national

Chris Hansen: 00:22:19

center for missing exploited children.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:21

But, you know, it's so ubiquitous that it's really hard to get a number on it.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:25

People always ask, you know, how many predators are out there on

Chris Hansen: 00:22:27

the internet at any given time?

Chris Hansen: 00:22:28

We don't know is that to answer?

Chris Hansen: 00:22:30

I mean, you can, you can, you can try to extrapolate it.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:33

And we've tried to do that.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:34

And you know, there's a lot, that's the answer in, you know, the dangerous,

Chris Hansen: 00:22:38

real, so you have to, you have to create this awareness and you have to

Chris Hansen: 00:22:42

create this discussion, this dialogue at home in that's the best way.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:48

I think in my experience to protect kids, which is, you know, if you

Chris Hansen: 00:22:51

don't know somebody in real life, then you don't know them online.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:54

And you know, when I was growing up, parents told their

Chris Hansen: 00:22:57

kids don't talk to strangers.

Chris Hansen: 00:22:58

Good advice then good advice today.

Chris Hansen: 00:23:00

But the problem is some of these predators and I read the transcripts all the time.

Chris Hansen: 00:23:04

They're so adapted, grooming that the guy who was a stranger on Wednesday,

Chris Hansen: 00:23:09

it was no longer a stranger on Friday.

Collier Landry: 00:23:13

It's, you know, my father, you know, he's obviously in prison for

Collier Landry: 00:23:17

murdering my mother, which I witnessed.

Collier Landry: 00:23:19

He's still incarcerated to this day because of my testimony and me

Collier Landry: 00:23:24

not letting him get away with it.

Collier Landry: 00:23:26

Well, one of the things that I never knew and see when I was, when all

Collier Landry: 00:23:29

this went down, you know, I was abandoned by both sides of my family.

Collier Landry: 00:23:33

And I went into the foster care system and I don't know why

Collier Landry: 00:23:39

my phone rang just turned off.

Collier Landry: 00:23:40

Um, I, uh, I went into the foster care system and I didn't, um,

Collier Landry: 00:23:45

I didn't have anybody to, to my mother's side of the family.

Collier Landry: 00:23:48

Didn't want anything to do with me on my father's side of the family.

Collier Landry: 00:23:50

Didn't want to do anything with me because you know, you can put your

Collier Landry: 00:23:52

father in prison and you're gonna put your father in prison, blah, blah, blah.

Collier Landry: 00:23:55

Well, I didn't know is that my mother's side of the family hated

Collier Landry: 00:23:58

me so much because of how I looked, because they felt that because I was.

Collier Landry: 00:24:03

And tall that I looked like my father, even though I looked like my mother, but

Collier Landry: 00:24:06

my father had molested my two cousins year and a half before he murdered my mother.

Collier Landry: 00:24:12

They're both girls.

Collier Landry: 00:24:13

He was a doctor.

Collier Landry: 00:24:14

He molested them under the guise of physicals.

Collier Landry: 00:24:16

And he, uh, he was, he was going to be arrested for that.

Collier Landry: 00:24:24

And the girls were so broken up over it that they couldn't bring themselves

Collier Landry: 00:24:28

to really testify at a trial.

Collier Landry: 00:24:30

And they, they couldn't arrest him for it.

Collier Landry: 00:24:33

And one of the things that the investigator that I was working with

Collier Landry: 00:24:36

had said, you know, the Baltimore police department said, look, you

Collier Landry: 00:24:39

know, there's no, there's no way this guy didn't kill his wife and get them

Collier Landry: 00:24:43

for us because he's a piece of shit.

Collier Landry: 00:24:45

And it's, it's, you know, when you, so there he is as a predator in that sense.

Collier Landry: 00:24:53

And then it obviously goes to the extreme, which is murdering my mother.

Collier Landry: 00:24:57

Do you feel like when you, when you see these people, I mean, it's interesting,

Collier Landry: 00:25:00

you said the Romeo and Juliet syndrome and look, man, I'm from higher, you're

Collier Landry: 00:25:03

from Michigan, but I'm closer to Kentucky.

Collier Landry: 00:25:06

We all know, we all know these stories of these people get married to, you

Collier Landry: 00:25:10

know, underage girls or, or guys, and it does happen, but this Romeo

Collier Landry: 00:25:15

and Juliet sort of thing, that's a whole other way of looking at it.

Collier Landry: 00:25:19

Like they almost feel like they're the saviors or they're

Collier Landry: 00:25:23

they got this God complex.

Collier Landry: 00:25:24

I think my father, obviously it's a, it's a control thing and

Collier Landry: 00:25:30

you know, a curse of control.

Collier Landry: 00:25:31

And then you have with these people, they think they're saving,

Collier Landry: 00:25:33

they romanticize it and it just becomes so difficult to see, um,

Chris Hansen: 00:25:41

times, uh, also it's the justification of it, you know, it's, it's,

Chris Hansen: 00:25:45

it's, you know, how they justify it in their mind to go there in the first place.

Chris Hansen: 00:25:50

And then the justification they tried.

Chris Hansen: 00:25:53

Use when I confront them.

Chris Hansen: 00:25:55

And we still get guys up until this, including this latest investigation

Chris Hansen: 00:26:00

just weeks ago where, you know, the guy says, well, I had gone on this site

Chris Hansen: 00:26:06

because I knew troubled girls were there.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:08

And I just came over to help her to put her on a straight narrow path and to

Chris Hansen: 00:26:12

be with her until her parents got home.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:13

And it's like, you know, do you think that's the first

Chris Hansen: 00:26:17

time I've ever heard that?

Chris Hansen: 00:26:19

Excuse me, it's not.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:21

It was, you know, for 18 years now I've heard it.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:24

But the end, you see it in the text, in the, in the, in the transcripts

Chris Hansen: 00:26:28

of the chats, you know, it's the same grooming, the same talk it's it's

Chris Hansen: 00:26:32

like they go to a website to get, you know, help on how to do this predator.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:37

One-on-one it's for

Collier Landry: 00:26:38

dummies about Barnes and noble.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:41

Yeah, exactly.

Chris Hansen: 00:26:43

Predator for dummies,

Collier Landry: 00:26:46

you know, there was so I, I, you know, I remember.

Collier Landry: 00:26:50

That the show originally was, was it canceled or did you guys kind

Collier Landry: 00:26:54

of just shut down for a while?

Collier Landry: 00:26:56

Because there was a district attorney, is that correct?

Collier Landry: 00:26:59

In New York

Chris Hansen: 00:27:00

that had the assistant district attorney who, uh, committed

Chris Hansen: 00:27:03

suicide after, um, the police went to go try to arrest him, but that didn't

Chris Hansen: 00:27:07

have anything to do with the show.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:09

We went on to multiple episodes afterwards.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:11

But in fact, the next episode of my podcast deals with that particular case

Chris Hansen: 00:27:17

Conrad and what had happened was not only did they find child porn on his computer

Chris Hansen: 00:27:22

and he knew that was coming and he was going to have to face the music for that.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:26

He was going to face the charges of the online solicitation.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:29

He never showed up in this sting operation, but the crime takes place

Chris Hansen: 00:27:32

online and he had the child porn and then it turns out which is something

Chris Hansen: 00:27:36

we reveal in the next episode of my podcast, that on that computer was also

Chris Hansen: 00:27:43

evidence in information that led to.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:47

Criminal charges against Conrad's boss, the actual da for embezzlement

Chris Hansen: 00:27:52

and financial wrongdoing.

Chris Hansen: 00:27:54

And this is the guy who came out strong, uh, against the Murphy Texas police

Chris Hansen: 00:27:59

department for arresting him at his house.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:03

And that was a courtesy actually, um, because, you know, they could have made a

Chris Hansen: 00:28:07

big scene at his office one day morning, but decided to take him, um, and you

Chris Hansen: 00:28:12

know, that what they thought was in a required, responsible way at his home.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:16

But we went on to do multiple investigations.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:18

After that.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:18

I think partly what happened at NBC was the investigation became very expensive.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:25

I think the network was ready to have me do some other work at the time.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:29

And I think they also found that they could expand the material.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:33

We had the library of predator material into different versions.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:39

And run them on MSNBC and people would continue to watch and we'd update them and

Chris Hansen: 00:28:44

follow the cases through the court system.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:46

And it was very popular for many years.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:49

And then a few years back, we did another version called Hanson vs

Chris Hansen: 00:28:53

predator, which aired on crime, watch daily, a syndicated show I did.

Chris Hansen: 00:28:56

And now we've got take down with Chris Hanson, which is the new predator, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:29:03

uh, episodes that we have coming out.

Chris Hansen: 00:29:04

Uh, we're going to put out one episode on the YouTube channel, have

Chris Hansen: 00:29:08

a seat with Chris Hanson and the next week or so, but it's going to

Chris Hansen: 00:29:10

go exclusively on our new, uh, crime streaming platform called true blue,

Chris Hansen: 00:29:18

which is going to launch in November.

Chris Hansen: 00:29:20

So they'll all be there.

Collier Landry: 00:29:23

You know, it's, it's, it's wild.

Collier Landry: 00:29:25

You said, you know, you've got 10, 10 Emmy's and the work that you

Collier Landry: 00:29:29

and that you've done, you know, it's probably, even though this

Collier Landry: 00:29:35

seems to have a very broad impact.

Collier Landry: 00:29:38

But I, and O has all the, has the work that you were,

Collier Landry: 00:29:41

that you won the Emmy's for?

Collier Landry: 00:29:42

Was that for also true crime based material?

Chris Hansen: 00:29:46

It was investigative crime kept breaking news,

Chris Hansen: 00:29:48

crime, investigative stuff.

Chris Hansen: 00:29:51

I'll give you an example.

Chris Hansen: 00:29:51

We went to Cambodia and infiltrated brothels, essentially selling

Chris Hansen: 00:29:57

children as young as five and six years old to Westerners for Sachs.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:03

And, uh, we collaborated with a NGO called international justice mission,

Chris Hansen: 00:30:08

and we posed as sex tourists and went into these raffles and captured a

Chris Hansen: 00:30:14

very compelling, hidden camera video.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:18

And, um, we then were part of a raid where 37 girls were rescued.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:24

We did the whole story and, and we confronted Americans who had gone

Chris Hansen: 00:30:28

over there for, um, Sex tourism.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:32

And then we followed up a few years later with the, some of the

Chris Hansen: 00:30:35

rescued girls and their lives.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:37

And so it became this very compelling narrative of what goes on over

Chris Hansen: 00:30:42

there, who takes part in it.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:44

And we were once again, able to take people to a place that wouldn't

Chris Hansen: 00:30:48

normally get to see and hear things they wouldn't normally get to hear.

Chris Hansen: 00:30:51

And, you know, that becomes very compelling information and it led

Chris Hansen: 00:30:54

to, you know, the U S government taking a different, more aggressive

Chris Hansen: 00:30:59

stance towards sex tourism.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:01

Colin Powell was interviewed for the piece and he, he, it was a

Chris Hansen: 00:31:05

topic near and dear to his heart.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:07

So we had the attention of the us government and the

Chris Hansen: 00:31:10

Canadian government saw it.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:11

And based upon the video that, uh, we had of the brothels, they were able

Chris Hansen: 00:31:17

to match up video, found in the trunk of a guy who beat up a sexual worker

Chris Hansen: 00:31:23

in Vancouver, and they linked him to going over to the same brothel,

Chris Hansen: 00:31:26

and then we're able to charge him.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:28

On a seven-year felony with, you know, sex tourism, essentially.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:33

So it was like this there's one story there's one hour of television kept

Chris Hansen: 00:31:39

making significant change worldwide.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:43

And the thing that's, you know, it's expensive, it's dangerous

Chris Hansen: 00:31:47

and it's time consuming to do so.

Chris Hansen: 00:31:48

You can't, that's not something you can do every week, but when you get

Chris Hansen: 00:31:51

the opportunity, you know, to effect, change like that and to take people

Chris Hansen: 00:31:57

into that world as dark as it may be, I think it's important to do it.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:00

And I've been very fortunate over the years and continue to be today to have

Chris Hansen: 00:32:06

supporters who allow me to do that work.

Collier Landry: 00:32:09

That's incredible.

Collier Landry: 00:32:10

I mean, as somebody who does this, who got into that to affect change, to

Collier Landry: 00:32:14

change the conversation, to speak out, uh, I mean, I just, I really admire

Chris Hansen: 00:32:19

you, man.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:20

So I appreciate that.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:21

I admire your work too.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:22

I mean, that's hard to do.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:23

It's harder.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:25

You know, the murder of your mother committed by your father

Chris Hansen: 00:32:27

and, and, you know, pour all that out on, on, uh, in a documentary.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:31

I mean, it's, it's, it's not easy to do, but, you know, look, if it

Chris Hansen: 00:32:35

was easy, everybody could do it, you know, and there's a lot of work.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:38

We do.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:39

That's very interesting to viewers and listeners and we do that work and, and

Chris Hansen: 00:32:44

it allows us to, to, you know, do the big picture, um, tent pole events that we do.

Chris Hansen: 00:32:52

And, um, you know, when you get the opportunity to do that and you

Chris Hansen: 00:32:55

know, it's something I did even in local news, um, you know, I cover

Chris Hansen: 00:32:59

whatever story happened that day.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:00

And I find a passion project and I chip away chip away, chip away.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:06

And you know, you get four of those a year and suddenly you're making

Chris Hansen: 00:33:08

a difference in people's lives.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:09

And again, you take people to a place they wouldn't normally get to go,

Collier Landry: 00:33:13

and it's the impact.

Collier Landry: 00:33:14

It's the, you know, it's just,

Chris Hansen: 00:33:17

it's, what's going to get, it's also, you get a sense over the year,

Chris Hansen: 00:33:20

you know, I've been doing this 40 years.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:23

I first got interested in journalism when I was 15, when Jimmy Hoffa was kidnapped

Chris Hansen: 00:33:28

a mile and a half from my childhood home.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:30

And, you know, I kind of got bit by the bug then and went off to school

Chris Hansen: 00:33:33

and studied at college and was fortunate enough to get right into

Chris Hansen: 00:33:37

radio and ultimately television before I even graduated from Michigan state.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:41

And so I, you know, I had a good jump on it and, um, you know, was allowed

Chris Hansen: 00:33:47

the, the flexibility, the latitude to, you know, crop sources and did take

Chris Hansen: 00:33:53

a day here and there to, you know, immerse myself in different topics.

Chris Hansen: 00:33:57

And, you know, if you bring home the bacon, you know, eight times out of

Chris Hansen: 00:34:01

10, they may tend to give you a little longer leash and a little longer lesion,

Chris Hansen: 00:34:05

you know, you use that for, for good.

Collier Landry: 00:34:07

Sure.

Collier Landry: 00:34:09

Um, yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:34:12

And then you can sort of see, you can do what you want do

Chris Hansen: 00:34:17

it.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:17

That's the goal really?

Chris Hansen: 00:34:18

I mean, to explore whatever topics you want, right.

Collier Landry: 00:34:22

Now you said you had two boys, you have three kids are

Chris Hansen: 00:34:25

I have two sons and a, then I have a stepdaughter and a stepson.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:31

Um,

Collier Landry: 00:34:32

so

Chris Hansen: 00:34:32

kids in college, my older two are in the business.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:35

So my oldest lives in Brooklyn and he's, uh, he's um, a production associate and

Chris Hansen: 00:34:42

assistant camera man and, and, uh, grip.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:44

And he works on films and commercials and crime shows.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:48

He's worked with me on some stuff.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:49

He shot a predator show with me, but he's got his own gig going on.

Chris Hansen: 00:34:52

And you know, these guys are very involved in a lot of different things

Chris Hansen: 00:34:56

and they have these, you know, networks of, of guys and gals who work in

Chris Hansen: 00:34:59

television film and, and they stayed very busy and he's doing a great job.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:04

And then my second son is, uh, is a television reporter for

Chris Hansen: 00:35:07

the Fox station in Orlando.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:09

And it's his, uh, his third market.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:11

And he's moving his way up and doing very well.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:13

And it's, it's, it's fun to see, you know, we, we have a morning call every once in

Chris Hansen: 00:35:17

a while where we criticize each other.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:19

And see if we can help each other out what's well,

Collier Landry: 00:35:23

well, I'm a 600 DP, so I, uh, I appreciate

Collier Landry: 00:35:26

all my camera guys for sure.

Collier Landry: 00:35:27

And I did live in Orlando

Collier Landry: 00:35:29

for

Chris Hansen: 00:35:29

a year.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:31

A lot of news and Florida Orlando's become a big town now.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:34

It's, uh, there's, there's something, something going every day and

Chris Hansen: 00:35:40

it's not always good either.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:41

No, no, but it's, you know, I remember years ago I was a reporter in Tampa, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:35:48

where I went to after I was in Atlanta.

Chris Hansen: 00:35:50

And, um, you know, any, any marketing, Florida, I mean, you're

Chris Hansen: 00:35:54

going to get Florida stuff and it's, it's it's, it keeps a reporter

Chris Hansen: 00:35:59

busy, you know, there's a lot

Collier Landry: 00:36:01

going on down there.

Collier Landry: 00:36:02

There's a lot going on in Ohio too

Chris Hansen: 00:36:05

well, and you're a Spartan.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:09

Yep.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:10

And class of 81.

Collier Landry: 00:36:12

Nice, nice.

Collier Landry: 00:36:14

Um, but you know, Unfortunately, there's that dark cloud that

Collier Landry: 00:36:19

hangs over with Larry and bizarre,

Chris Hansen: 00:36:22

nasty oh, NASA.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:24

That that was a horrible situation in a highlights.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:28

You know, the responsibility of, you know, the university journalists, you

Chris Hansen: 00:36:33

know, anybody who's supposed to be keeping an eye out and protecting,

Chris Hansen: 00:36:39

you know, our students and our athletes, you know, th there was that

Chris Hansen: 00:36:42

horrible incident at Michigan state.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:44

And, um, my heart goes out to those young women, those survivors who were

Chris Hansen: 00:36:51

first traumatized and then traumatized again, because law enforcement

Chris Hansen: 00:36:54

didn't immediately pick up on it.

Chris Hansen: 00:36:56

And it, it took a while before those cases were taken seriously,

Chris Hansen: 00:37:00

the way they should have been.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:01

And finally, you know, he was brought to justice.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:05

There was another case at, uh, at Michigan.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:08

They had a physician, there was one recently at UCLA.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:10

I mean, And, you know, too many times, historically universities

Chris Hansen: 00:37:16

have been dismissive Penn state, for instance, with Sandusky for too long.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:23

And people who were involved in athletics got a pass.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:26

And in the Michigan state case horrifyingly, you know, this guy

Chris Hansen: 00:37:30

was so arrogant, such a narcissist and such a predator that he

Chris Hansen: 00:37:36

thought he could get away with it.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:37

And even didn't get away with it because he, he scared these

Chris Hansen: 00:37:41

young girls into silence.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:42

Some of this stuff happened with parents on the other side of the screen, I'm gonna

Chris Hansen: 00:37:46

imagine those shock and horror and the guilt and the horrible aftermath of that.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:52

And all because it's not the parents' fault, it's not the girl's fault.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:55

It's Nasser's fault.

Chris Hansen: 00:37:57

First and foremost for being an evil human being.

Chris Hansen: 00:38:00

And then the university has got to, got to keep an eye out and

Chris Hansen: 00:38:04

I'm a big Michigan state booster.

Chris Hansen: 00:38:05

You know, I know some of the people who lost their jobs over that deal and

Chris Hansen: 00:38:09

you can justify it any way you want.

Chris Hansen: 00:38:11

And so.

Chris Hansen: 00:38:12

So w so-and-so was paying more attention to basketball and football, then

Chris Hansen: 00:38:15

gymnastics, but that's your job at the end of the day, you know, and if you're

Chris Hansen: 00:38:20

not keeping an eye on you better, Dan we'll have somebody who is, um, and

Chris Hansen: 00:38:25

so, you know, our heads role because of that, there's a lot of liability there.

Collier Landry: 00:38:30

Uh, so what I'm curious of is, so you mentioned this, and

Collier Landry: 00:38:33

then you said the parents on the other side of the screens, and this is, you

Collier Landry: 00:38:35

know, it's like, what do you watch?

Collier Landry: 00:38:37

Something like the Michael Jackson documentary.

Collier Landry: 00:38:39

Right.

Collier Landry: 00:38:41

And you see anything, like, for example of Jeffrey Epstein, right?

Collier Landry: 00:38:48

And you see the, sort of the allure of whatever's happening, whether it

Collier Landry: 00:38:55

be athletics, whether it be starting, whether it be money, how fame exactly.

Collier Landry: 00:39:02

You know, do you feel that almost there's a willing participant.

Collier Landry: 00:39:07

Sometimes our people sort of turn a blind eye to it when they should be maybe

Collier Landry: 00:39:12

protecting their children or absolutely.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:15

I think, I think it's, it's, you know, in some sense, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:39:20

uh, corruption, you know, it's, people are swayed by fame and fortune and,

Chris Hansen: 00:39:25

and, um, you know, in some cases that's allowed, you know, lapses in

Chris Hansen: 00:39:32

judgment that, uh, have put kids in precarious and dangerous situations.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:39

And, um, yeah, I think that's a big part of it.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:42

Um, and you have to be watchful as a parent, whether it's online

Chris Hansen: 00:39:47

or whether it's, you know, who your kids are hanging out with.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:49

And I think, I think Fein crabs in power clubs.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:54

And, you know, if you're not, if you let yourself get caught up

Chris Hansen: 00:39:57

in that, I mean, we see it now.

Chris Hansen: 00:39:59

And one of the things that we're getting ready to report on

Chris Hansen: 00:40:02

are all these parents who are.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:05

Promoting their children on YouTube and Tik TOK.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:10

And they're being taken advantage of by, uh, people online.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:17

And in some of these kids are being essentially pimped out

Chris Hansen: 00:40:20

by their own parents because they're making money on YouTube.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:25

Um, and, and, you know, we saw all too well, not, not, this is a example of

Chris Hansen: 00:40:30

parents not doing the right thing, but there was a case in Naples, Florida,

Chris Hansen: 00:40:36

where a girl had, uh, you know, reasonably, uh, done Tik TOK presence.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:43

And there was a stalker and the guy showed up at the door with a shotgun blast of

Chris Hansen: 00:40:47

the door open because he was obsessed with this teen girl and had the dad not

Chris Hansen: 00:40:52

been an ex-cop who had a gun and shot him.

Chris Hansen: 00:40:55

I mean, he could've killed the whole family and, and, you know,

Chris Hansen: 00:40:58

but it highlights, you know, What the potential danger is out there.

Chris Hansen: 00:41:03

And you have to be careful, you know, your kids are exposed to, and then there

Chris Hansen: 00:41:08

are other examples, you know, you see some of these Sharon's or these people

Chris Hansen: 00:41:12

who are, you know, promoting their children on social media sites and

Chris Hansen: 00:41:16

exploding their children on social media sites or adopting multiple children.

Chris Hansen: 00:41:20

So they can have a presence on YouTube and it's, it's shocking what people will do to

Chris Hansen: 00:41:26

make money with their parents, you know?

Chris Hansen: 00:41:30

And that's a shocking part of it.

Collier Landry: 00:41:36

you know, it's, uh, money is the root of all evil, as I say,

Chris Hansen: 00:41:41

in some cases that's true.

Collier Landry: 00:41:43

It's yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:41:44

It's it's, I mean, it feels almost like you to you dive down the rabbit hole so

Collier Landry: 00:41:50

far with these things, and then how, you know, it's just like, you know, a CA or,

Collier Landry: 00:41:55

you know, I remember the movie heat with Al Pachino and, and Robert, everybody.

Collier Landry: 00:42:01

Great, great movie by Michael Mann.

Collier Landry: 00:42:02

But there's a moment when he's talking about, you know, he's he's and the

Collier Landry: 00:42:05

argument with his girlfriend or third ex wife or third wife or whatever.

Collier Landry: 00:42:09

And he says something like, you know, I just had, yeah, he just basically talks

Collier Landry: 00:42:12

about the stress of the job, literally.

Collier Landry: 00:42:13

Like, I don't bring that shit home.

Collier Landry: 00:42:15

Like I don't, you know, I saw a mom, a crack head cook her baby in the

Collier Landry: 00:42:19

microwave because it was crying, you know, or something like that.

Collier Landry: 00:42:22

You know, these guys and you yourself, when you, when you talk

Collier Landry: 00:42:26

about these things and seeing this horror every day, how do you, how

Collier Landry: 00:42:30

do you find that work-life balance?

Collier Landry: 00:42:31

How do you not bring that home to your family?

Collier Landry: 00:42:33

How do you not look at your kids?

Chris Hansen: 00:42:35

Well, I think over the, over the years, I mean, you know, you

Chris Hansen: 00:42:39

have to, you know, compartmentalize sometimes and say, okay, this

Chris Hansen: 00:42:44

is my work, um, state of mind.

Chris Hansen: 00:42:47

And then you have to transition into, you know, dad and husband, and,

Chris Hansen: 00:42:52

you know, it's easier now because the kids are adults, but yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:42:57

You just, you have to be able to, in my case, you know, have your athletic

Chris Hansen: 00:43:03

releases and, and to have your intellectual releases and, and to be

Chris Hansen: 00:43:08

able to, you know, get away from it.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:10

I've always been pretty good.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:12

I'm sure there's, you know, there's, there's been an impact on me that I

Chris Hansen: 00:43:15

don't even realize, but the, you know, generally speaking, I've always been

Chris Hansen: 00:43:20

able to transition into, you know, home life and, and ski down a mountain or,

Chris Hansen: 00:43:27

you know, go for a run or go to the gym or watch a movie, or, you know, do

Chris Hansen: 00:43:31

whatever, uh, you know, I'm into it that moment to, you know, get away from it.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:35

And you just have to, because if you, if you live in that dark world the

Chris Hansen: 00:43:39

whole time, you, you know, you get too dark yourself and you can't do that.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:42

And also, I mean, for me, at least, I think it's been the ability

Chris Hansen: 00:43:47

to have sort of a dark sense of humor, a gallows sense of humor.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:53

To even in the, you know, in the predator investigations, I mean, there

Chris Hansen: 00:43:56

are undeniably humorous moments, right.

Chris Hansen: 00:43:59

And you have to just a hundred percent except that, you know, and, and, and,

Chris Hansen: 00:44:03

and you do have a dark sense of humor and that's not appropriate with everybody in

Chris Hansen: 00:44:07

your circle, but it is a great person.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:10

I know that's.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:12

Yes, exactly.

Collier Landry: 00:44:13

Um, he's I mean, you know, so, uh, was there, what was

Collier Landry: 00:44:19

like the one case, and this doesn't have to be predator, of course.

Collier Landry: 00:44:23

Was there one case that you just were like, fuck, man,

Collier Landry: 00:44:28

I wish that didn't happen.

Collier Landry: 00:44:30

And again, not a predator.

Collier Landry: 00:44:31

Well, I,

Chris Hansen: 00:44:32

I think, you know, you're a witness to the truth,

Chris Hansen: 00:44:34

you know, there's there's yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:35

I mean, it, it, you know, every nine 11, I wish it didn't happen.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:40

Um, in Oklahoma city bombing, I wish didn't happen.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:43

All that stuff.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:43

I wish didn't happen, but it did.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:46

And it's like, you know, what I always say is the reporter's prayer.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:49

God, I don't want it to happen, but if it does, let me be the first

Chris Hansen: 00:44:51

guy there to, to report on it.

Chris Hansen: 00:44:53

And so, you know, you go through it and those things are just as impactful

Chris Hansen: 00:44:57

on, uh, reporters as, uh, you know, the predator series or anything else.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:01

I mean, you, you, you're watching in the case of nine 11 or the case of Oklahoma

Chris Hansen: 00:45:05

city, you know, large-scale debt.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:08

I mean, even just yesterday morning here in New York city, we had the, the guy who

Chris Hansen: 00:45:13

got on the train with the smoke canisters and they shot up and not yet not when

Chris Hansen: 00:45:19

I got on with you and we can look right now, but I mean, they know who it is.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:23

They've got all that YouTube presence.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:25

Um, you know, obviously somebody who's suffering from mental illness and

Chris Hansen: 00:45:30

has an ax to grind with the subway system and the mayor of New York.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:33

And he's got some criminal history and, and, uh, and a large scale footprint

Chris Hansen: 00:45:38

on YouTube, ranting and raving.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:40

And I planted some of them.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:42

Um, against the mayor against his crackdown on subway

Chris Hansen: 00:45:44

crime and homeless people.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:45

And, you know, he feels aggrieved by some sort of treatment he received

Chris Hansen: 00:45:49

in the New York area and years ago.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:51

And clearly he had plotted this I'm just because somebody is mentally ill or crazy.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:56

It doesn't make them stupid.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:57

I mean, the guy is a pretty bright guy.

Chris Hansen: 00:45:59

He was able to pull this off, you know?

Chris Hansen: 00:46:01

And, um, so they're looking for them.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:03

I have no doubt.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:03

They'll find out my main NYP D is the finest law

Chris Hansen: 00:46:05

enforcement agency in the world.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:07

And, you know, certainly among the biggest and a cooperative efforts with,

Chris Hansen: 00:46:12

uh, every other law enforcement agency in the world, don't, they'll find him.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:16

I don't think he's gone that far.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:17

They found his vehicle.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:19

They found the gun, the credit card keys to the rental vehicle.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:23

So it's just, it's really just a matter of time before they find him.

Collier Landry: 00:46:28

I want, I want to continue on this, but I do want to ask

Collier Landry: 00:46:30

something, you know, there was, you know, you mentioned him on YouTube,

Collier Landry: 00:46:33

wasn't there a big YouTuber that was just exposed or it was taken down.

Collier Landry: 00:46:38

That was, that was doing all.

Collier Landry: 00:46:41

This predatory activity is

Chris Hansen: 00:46:43

there've been several of them, dozens and dozens.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:46

But the one that we focused on that turned into a documentary on discovery plus was

Chris Hansen: 00:46:50

a guy who went by the name of Gregory.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:55

And, uh, he, he was very popular YouTuber.

Chris Hansen: 00:46:58

And then, you know, got involved in rooming and bullying and abusing and,

Chris Hansen: 00:47:05

and inappropriately, uh, interacting with fans and inviting some of them

Chris Hansen: 00:47:10

out to his home in Washington state.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:13

And there were allegations of sexual impropriety and, and just really

Chris Hansen: 00:47:18

awful, awful and illegal behavior.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:21

And so he came, we started to investigate them and interview some

Chris Hansen: 00:47:24

of his victims and it turned out.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:27

Um, a big YouTube series on our YouTube channel, have a seat with

Chris Hansen: 00:47:31

Chris Hanson and then it turned into a, uh, a series on a discovery plus.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:35

So it's called Onishi on, in real life.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:38

And we, you know, we'd lay him bare for what he is and ultimately YouTube

Chris Hansen: 00:47:42

demonetized and cracked down on because he was just the stuff he was doing

Chris Hansen: 00:47:47

to, um, young women was horrifying.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:50

Uh, but yeah, that's out now and he's not alone.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:54

I mean, there's a lot of this.

Chris Hansen: 00:47:55

I mean, YouTube has been in some ways the great, you know, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:48:00

democratisation of people having access citizen reporters and created people.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:06

And it's, it's great for a lot of people, but it's also created an

Chris Hansen: 00:48:09

opportunity for abuse and predatory behavior, and it's hard to.

Collier Landry: 00:48:14

I mean, how does this not give you anxiety as a

Collier Landry: 00:48:16

parent and your parenting choices?

Collier Landry: 00:48:17

Right.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:17

Well, I mean, you know, my guys are, my guys are past it,

Chris Hansen: 00:48:21

you know, I'm lucky my guys aren't, aren't three and four years old.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:24

My guys are 30 to 20.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:26

So, um,

Collier Landry: 00:48:28

but what would you say to the parents that are dealing with this?

Collier Landry: 00:48:30

Well,

Chris Hansen: 00:48:31

as I mentioned, you know, I, I, I think you have to

Chris Hansen: 00:48:33

sit down and have a discussion.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:35

You know, you have to, you, first of all, you have to lead by example, if mom or

Chris Hansen: 00:48:39

dad's on the computer doing nefarious things, you know, it's not gonna create

Chris Hansen: 00:48:43

a very good example for the children, but you also just have to be very honest and

Chris Hansen: 00:48:48

age appropriate in your discussion about the potential dangers out there and what

Chris Hansen: 00:48:52

they are and why you have to be careful.

Chris Hansen: 00:48:55

And, you know, I, I hear all the time, you know, we're, we're on the third

Chris Hansen: 00:48:59

generation of predator investigation, followers, um, in it's very, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:49:08

Rewarding to me to be walking down the street in any city American.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:12

If somebody come and say, Hey, I watched your shows and it helped me not to

Chris Hansen: 00:49:16

be the victim of a predator online.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:19

And I saw the new one by the way.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:20

Thanks for doing it.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:21

I mean, that's why we do it is to, to create that awareness and that dialogue

Collier Landry: 00:49:27

you ever get anybody that's seen the show that is, that is to

Collier Landry: 00:49:30

you and said, you know, I, I reformed my ways because I was going down a dark path,

Chris Hansen: 00:49:34

not so much that we have people who serve us in the investigation.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:39

Yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:40

I mean, here's what I do get a lot is somebody who'll say, Hey,

Chris Hansen: 00:49:43

can I talk to you for a minute?

Chris Hansen: 00:49:44

And somebody who will, who you wouldn't, how would you know, but somebody who

Chris Hansen: 00:49:49

will say, look, I had an unfortunate experience with an adult as a child.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:53

And, you know, your, your series helped me to cope with that.

Chris Hansen: 00:49:58

And it helped me to know that Walmart.

Chris Hansen: 00:50:02

Predator was not brought to justice or maybe he was.

Chris Hansen: 00:50:05

Um, but to see somebody out there doing something about it has been cathartic

Chris Hansen: 00:50:10

to me and that's very rewarding as well.

Collier Landry: 00:50:14

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:50:14

I mean, I get, you know, it's, it's funny when I made the film and, you

Collier Landry: 00:50:18

know, people, people reach out to me and they, some would have circumstances

Collier Landry: 00:50:25

that weren't quite as gruesome as mine were, but they were, they were bad.

Collier Landry: 00:50:30

And I always tell people, you know, I'm like the extreme, like I'm like the, I'm

Collier Landry: 00:50:35

like the Micheal, the Tom Brady of the extreme drama, like crazy family stuff.

Collier Landry: 00:50:41

But that has to be that there are stories.

Collier Landry: 00:50:44

There are ways that these things impact people that are just as traumatizing.

Collier Landry: 00:50:48

I'm like, gee, my trauma is not bigger than yours.

Collier Landry: 00:50:50

Mine is just such an extreme and crazy example and my

Collier Landry: 00:50:53

sort of way of dealing with.

Collier Landry: 00:50:55

Doing the work that I'm doing, the film, the podcasts speaking, the Ted

Collier Landry: 00:50:59

talk that this, that, that being on Dr.

Collier Landry: 00:51:01

Phil sharing my story with people.

Collier Landry: 00:51:02

Right.

Collier Landry: 00:51:03

And, but I mean the overwhelming majority.

Collier Landry: 00:51:07

And when, when I set out to make a murder Mansfield, I was like, I want to change

Collier Landry: 00:51:10

my, I want to put this to bed for myself.

Collier Landry: 00:51:13

And I want to change one, one person's life, because there's a kid like

Collier Landry: 00:51:16

me sitting in foster care, nobody's got his back, he's lost everything.

Collier Landry: 00:51:21

He's, he's in the Nadir of his life.

Collier Landry: 00:51:23

And he's literally, you know, gotta do the most difficult thing, which is testifying

Collier Landry: 00:51:28

against your parent who has a legal team and who, you know, murdered your

Collier Landry: 00:51:34

mother, but who had also get off and will privately probably either stick you in the

Collier Landry: 00:51:39

ground a few months later, or we'll make the rest of your life, a living hell, you

Collier Landry: 00:51:44

know, and finding the courage to do that.

Collier Landry: 00:51:46

And I want to just speak to like those individuals, right?

Collier Landry: 00:51:51

But the overwhelming majority, sadly, is people that have suffered sexual abuse.

Collier Landry: 00:51:56

And obviously they've turned to drugs or violence or crime or whatever

Collier Landry: 00:52:00

it is to cope with all of that.

Collier Landry: 00:52:03

And then they see my story and they just are impacted, you know, they're really

Collier Landry: 00:52:08

just like, oh, you really helped me.

Collier Landry: 00:52:10

And I, so I, you know, I'm with you when it is disheartening as is

Collier Landry: 00:52:15

to hear people going through this.

Collier Landry: 00:52:16

It's, it's amazing to be able to have an impact for something that you didn't

Collier Landry: 00:52:19

even realize was going to do that.

Collier Landry: 00:52:21

It's just like, I was just trying to do some good.

Collier Landry: 00:52:23

I was trying to make some show.

Collier Landry: 00:52:24

I thought this was interesting.

Collier Landry: 00:52:26

Oh, what the hell?

Collier Landry: 00:52:26

You know?

Collier Landry: 00:52:28

Um, it's to be commended for sure.

Collier Landry: 00:52:32

Um, what, like what have you been through, I think it's you like, what is your.

Collier Landry: 00:52:44

Yeah,

Chris Hansen: 00:52:44

I've had a relatively trauma trauma free life.

Chris Hansen: 00:52:47

I'm in a very fortunate to, you know, I grew up in a, you know, a

Chris Hansen: 00:52:52

very upper middle class household and we were not wealthy, but we

Chris Hansen: 00:52:56

had, you know, a, a very good life.

Chris Hansen: 00:52:58

And I always like to say, you know, I got to go to a great high school.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:01

Although I, you know, I, I worked in the back of a bakery to pay for half of it.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:05

That was a good experience for me.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:06

I mean, I, I really, you know, uh, everybody has, you know, a little

Chris Hansen: 00:53:11

life changes along the way, but, you know, I honestly, you know, and maybe

Chris Hansen: 00:53:15

that's part of what drives me to do.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:16

The kind of reporting I do is because I feel very fortunate

Chris Hansen: 00:53:18

to not have had trauma.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:21

We all have loss, we lose parents, but it's, you know, those are all explainable,

Chris Hansen: 00:53:26

understandable events in life.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:28

Um, life changes as well, but, you know, it's, it's really, I've been

Chris Hansen: 00:53:33

very fortunate guide of healthy kids.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:36

Healthy relationships and, and, you know, to have a very healthy

Chris Hansen: 00:53:39

career and, and to be able to pursue the things that I care about.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:43

So I don't have a base of trauma to work from.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:47

I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a good question.

Chris Hansen: 00:53:49

And it's one that people often ask, because I think there's a general

Chris Hansen: 00:53:53

feeling that well, to do this sort of work, you know, was there something

Chris Hansen: 00:53:57

that happened to you that sparked you to be an activist journalist in this way?

Chris Hansen: 00:54:02

And there really wasn't.

Chris Hansen: 00:54:04

I mean, it just a sense of, you know, curiosity and, and wanting to

Chris Hansen: 00:54:09

do something nobody else has done.

Chris Hansen: 00:54:11

And again, to take people to a place they wouldn't normally see in,

Chris Hansen: 00:54:15

into, you know, get into the head of somebody who could hurt you and

Chris Hansen: 00:54:19

by understanding how all that works, prevent somebody else from being hurt.

Chris Hansen: 00:54:23

I mean, that's, that's the drawing here.

Collier Landry: 00:54:26

Well, you know, we look at all this stuff, right.

Collier Landry: 00:54:28

And we, we have.

Collier Landry: 00:54:31

These moments where we just, we go dark in our own lives and we go, you know,

Collier Landry: 00:54:35

the world is just a miserable place.

Collier Landry: 00:54:36

This is bad.

Collier Landry: 00:54:37

And that's one of the things that I just, I always try to be like

Collier Landry: 00:54:39

this perpetual ball of optimism, because this just sort of my

Chris Hansen: 00:54:42

nature, they just arrested the subway shooter by the way.

Collier Landry: 00:54:46

Oh, they did.

Collier Landry: 00:54:47

Oh, wow.

Collier Landry: 00:54:47

That's amazing.

Collier Landry: 00:54:50

That's incredible.

Collier Landry: 00:54:51

Well, congratulations to MIPT and nobody miraculously, no one was

Chris Hansen: 00:54:56

severely injured.

Chris Hansen: 00:54:57

Yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:54:58

I mean, I mean, there were some severe injuries, but not life-threatening and

Collier Landry: 00:55:02

life riding his mind, but yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:55:05

I mean, but I mean still the trauma of all of this.

Chris Hansen: 00:55:09

Yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:55:10

Well, I mean, you know, you know what it's like being in a subway you're uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:55:14

uh, yeah, you're trapped and if the subway is moving, you can't get off.

Chris Hansen: 00:55:19

Um, you know, Brooklyn, subway shooting, suspect Frank James in custody.

Chris Hansen: 00:55:23

Well, that's good news.

Collier Landry: 00:55:25

That is good news.

Collier Landry: 00:55:27

Um, yes.

Collier Landry: 00:55:30

It's easy for people.

Collier Landry: 00:55:31

I think, you know, uh, you know, we just came out of a pandemic and then

Collier Landry: 00:55:34

now we're in a war and we've got a financial issue that's looming.

Collier Landry: 00:55:37

And you know, there's just a lot of, there's a lot of things going on.

Collier Landry: 00:55:40

And then there's this sort of people taking a hard look at their lives going,

Collier Landry: 00:55:45

is this how I really want to live my life?

Collier Landry: 00:55:47

Whether it's good or bad.

Collier Landry: 00:55:48

Right.

Collier Landry: 00:55:49

But I always try to, when people, I know have the doom and gloom.

Collier Landry: 00:55:55

You know, what, what is the positive we can take from all this?

Collier Landry: 00:55:58

I mean, what do you say to people?

Collier Landry: 00:55:59

Well,

Chris Hansen: 00:56:00

I th I think, you know, look, tomorrow's a new day and I was

Chris Hansen: 00:56:03

looking at, uh, you know, I mentioned Colin Powell earlier and, and, uh,

Chris Hansen: 00:56:07

when I interviewed him for his rules for living in my wallet, well, I have

Chris Hansen: 00:56:11

it in the next room here in my office.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:15

Um, you know, it, it, those are the 13 rules.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:18

So life is really, really, it's, it's never as bad as it looked at it look

Chris Hansen: 00:56:23

better in the morning and, and, uh, perpetual optimism, perpetual optimism

Chris Hansen: 00:56:27

is a force multiplier, multiplier.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:30

Yeah.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:30

So I, you know, I, I've always been an optimistic thought.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:34

Yeah, I got it.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:35

And then I showed him, yeah, it's it's.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:36

And I think there are words to live by.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:37

I truly do.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:38

And, and, you know, you can get down or you can, you know, you know, you can be

Chris Hansen: 00:56:43

in a dark mood based upon what you have to do that day or what you do for living,

Chris Hansen: 00:56:47

but at the end of the day, you know, it.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:51

No, we're here for a reason.

Chris Hansen: 00:56:52

And I think we, we hopefully figure out what that reason is and we do it

Chris Hansen: 00:56:56

and that's, you know, that's a line.

Collier Landry: 00:57:02

Yeah.

Collier Landry: 00:57:03

Life is still a beautiful thing.

Collier Landry: 00:57:04

It's just, there's so much beauty in the world too.

Collier Landry: 00:57:07

And we get lost in this, you know, obviously you're

Collier Landry: 00:57:11

coming from this journalism background and you got into this.

Collier Landry: 00:57:14

I'm always fascinated because I was thrown into this true crime world.

Collier Landry: 00:57:18

And, you know, I'm obviously doing the podcast, but it's also about like

Collier Landry: 00:57:21

my journey and my journey has just been, you know, I'm out, I'll see you

Collier Landry: 00:57:23

at crime con in a couple of weeks.

Collier Landry: 00:57:25

Um, uh, you know, I've always been fascinated with why people

Collier Landry: 00:57:31

are obsessed with true crime.

Collier Landry: 00:57:33

I mean, we're going to a trade show, uh, you know, a conference, whatever we want

Collier Landry: 00:57:37

with all a symposium about true crime.

Collier Landry: 00:57:39

Do you, do you feel, or, or what.

Collier Landry: 00:57:43

One are you astonished by this?

Collier Landry: 00:57:45

Because now 18 years running, it's still the same thing.

Collier Landry: 00:57:48

Wash, rinse, repeat, but people are still fascinated by it.

Collier Landry: 00:57:50

First of all.

Collier Landry: 00:57:50

And second of all, you know, what, why do you think people are?

Collier Landry: 00:57:54

So is it the shot in Freud of the situation?

Collier Landry: 00:57:56

Is it the, I think it's

Chris Hansen: 00:57:58

a little bit of everything.

Chris Hansen: 00:57:58

I think, I think everybody likes to be an armchair detective and I think,

Chris Hansen: 00:58:04

you know, it's very interesting to a lot of people to go see this world is

Chris Hansen: 00:58:10

the same reason why, you know, movies on crime, mob movies are so popular.

Chris Hansen: 00:58:17

It's you, you, you get to see something you don't normally see in your regular

Chris Hansen: 00:58:20

life and whether it's glamorized in a mob movie or it's, uh, you know, it's

Chris Hansen: 00:58:27

a 50th anniversary of the godfather.

Chris Hansen: 00:58:29

I mean, all those things are very interesting.

Chris Hansen: 00:58:32

And, and I think what we do as, you know, television journalists and filmmakers and

Chris Hansen: 00:58:38

documentarians is take people into that.

Chris Hansen: 00:58:42

And I think we do all the dark stuff, so they don't have to.

Chris Hansen: 00:58:46

And I think, I think, look until we figure out, you know, how to solve every crime

Chris Hansen: 00:58:51

or how to prevent crimes from happening, it's always going to be a mystery as

Chris Hansen: 00:58:54

to the way the criminal mind works, whether it's a predator or a killer or

Chris Hansen: 00:58:57

a financial scammer, Bernie Madoff, you know, whatever it is, you know, you can't

Chris Hansen: 00:59:03

believe somebody would actually do that or use their inherent intelligence for

Chris Hansen: 00:59:08

evil when they could use it for good.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:11

And so it's one of the mysteries of the world and I don't

Chris Hansen: 00:59:14

think it'll ever be solved.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:16

And so when we delve into it to take people into that world, I think it's

Chris Hansen: 00:59:20

inherently fascinating and entertaining.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:23

And so, you know, people are, are, are very interested in,

Chris Hansen: 00:59:26

it's always been that way.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:28

I think we've learned how to harvest it and exploited, hopefully in

Chris Hansen: 00:59:32

a responsible, entertaining way.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:34

It creates a dialogue and in a discussion and awareness, it didn't exist before.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:39

And I think that's, that's part of why it's so fascinating.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:44

Uh, it's always been glamorized a little bit in films.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:47

Um, you know, silence of the lambs, all that, you know, it's, it's, it takes

Chris Hansen: 00:59:52

people into an unbelievable world.

Chris Hansen: 00:59:55

Um, that's, that's dark, but is entertaining.

Collier Landry: 01:00:00

That's a good point.

Collier Landry: 01:00:01

I never thought about that with the mob movies.

Collier Landry: 01:00:02

I was a good fellows fan.

Collier Landry: 01:00:04

I'm not going to lie.

Collier Landry: 01:00:08

Um, oh, um, you know, Chris Hanson, uh, I I've, I have so much respect

Collier Landry: 01:00:15

for you and the work that you've done over the years and, and this has been.

Collier Landry: 01:00:20

Probably the cool, one of the coolest things I've done since I've started

Collier Landry: 01:00:22

the podcast a little under a year ago.

Collier Landry: 01:00:25

Um, I really appreciate your time, man.

Collier Landry: 01:00:28

This is so cool.

Collier Landry: 01:00:28

And fan shout out to

Chris Hansen: 01:00:29

Steven Cohen.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:31

I'll see it.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:31

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:32

I mean our man, Steve we'll, uh, we'll see a crime con

Collier Landry: 01:00:37

well CA time con my guest today has been Chris Hanson.

Collier Landry: 01:00:40

Uh, you should check out his podcast

Chris Hansen: 01:00:42

predators.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:43

I've got with Chris Hanson and, uh, that's on all the platforms.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:47

The YouTube channel is have a see with Chris Hanson, true

Chris Hansen: 01:00:49

blue launches in the fall.

Chris Hansen: 01:00:51

So go to watch true blue.com and we've got the two documentaries Onishi on

Chris Hansen: 01:00:57

in real life and unseemly the Peter Nygaard investigation on discovery plus.

Chris Hansen: 01:01:02

Fantastic,

Collier Landry: 01:01:03

man.

Collier Landry: 01:01:03

Um, thank you so much movers.

Collier Landry: 01:01:05

I hope you got something out of this episode.

Collier Landry: 01:01:12

Wow.

Collier Landry: 01:01:13

You know, when you think about Chris having done this for so.

Collier Landry: 01:01:18

So many years, and it's just seeing the same thing over and over again.

Collier Landry: 01:01:23

And it's, you know, you never really kind of move past it, but you, I mean, you

Collier Landry: 01:01:28

do in a lot of ways, but it still gets you, it still has this heartfelt moments.

Collier Landry: 01:01:35

I mean, the work that he's been doing for so long is really incredible.

Collier Landry: 01:01:39

Um, and it's humbling and it, you know, it's like, I remember when I first

Collier Landry: 01:01:43

saw the program and I would see these people and I thought, you know, mental

Collier Landry: 01:01:48

health is such a big part of, uh, of society and taking care of yourself

Collier Landry: 01:01:53

and people getting help and treatment.

Collier Landry: 01:01:54

It's not to say that what they're doing is excusable by any circumstance at all.

Collier Landry: 01:01:59

It's not at all.

Collier Landry: 01:02:00

I mean, my father was a pedophile.

Collier Landry: 01:02:02

Um, but it's, it is very, um, you know, it's very interesting to look

Collier Landry: 01:02:09

at these people with a little bit of compassion and, you know, try to

Collier Landry: 01:02:13

get them help because ultimately.

Collier Landry: 01:02:16

You know, helping people move through this obsession that they have will

Collier Landry: 01:02:21

ultimately make us better as a society.

Collier Landry: 01:02:23

I don't know.

Collier Landry: 01:02:24

I mean, maybe I'm out there, maybe, you know, I love to hear what you guys

Collier Landry: 01:02:27

think about this, about this episode, about what you thought you know about

Collier Landry: 01:02:31

Chris and, you know, he's my first, really big guest on this podcast.

Collier Landry: 01:02:34

So I'm, uh, I'm really stoked to have him.

Collier Landry: 01:02:36

And I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say about the interview

Collier Landry: 01:02:40

and what you thought of him.

Collier Landry: 01:02:41

And I will be seeing Chris next week at crime con Las Vegas,

Collier Landry: 01:02:45

which is not my favorite place in the world, but it's still cool.

Collier Landry: 01:02:48

And I'm excited to be there with a bunch of my friends and checking

Collier Landry: 01:02:50

out this whole true crime world that I'm sort of kind of due to.

Collier Landry: 01:02:53

I don't know, it'll be fun.

Collier Landry: 01:02:55

Uh, crime con is from April 29th to May 1st.

Collier Landry: 01:02:59

And, uh, so hopefully I'll see some of you guys there anyways.

Collier Landry: 01:03:02

I hope you really enjoyed today's episode.

Collier Landry: 01:03:04

I know I did.

Collier Landry: 01:03:05

And, um, I was excited to bring you guys this content anyways, I'm Collier

Collier Landry: 01:03:09

Landry and this is Moving Past Murder

Collier Landry: 01:03:15

this podcast is made possible by support from listeners, just like you.

Collier Landry: 01:03:23

Please subscribe via apple podcast, Spotify audible.

Collier Landry: 01:03:27

Find us on YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/collierlandry

Collier Landry: 01:03:36

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Collier Landry: 01:03:39

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Collier Landry: 01:03:41

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Collier Landry: 01:03:49

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Collier Landry: 01:03:51

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