Why I Quit Drinking Alcohol w/ Gil Tietz, Host of Sober Powered Podcast
I feel like most people genuinely want to be the best version of themselves. Collier has always strived to be the best person he could be. However, there was always one thing that seemed to keep me slightly off my A-game, and on November 5, 2020, I decided to make a change.
I quit drinking alcohol.
Now I know this isn't for everyone, but for me, I knew I could never achieve the life I always wanted if I didn't say farewell to my go-to vice whenever I felt like "cutting loose."
In this deeply personal episode of Moving Past Murder, my guest is Gil Tietz, host of the Sober Powered podcast. We discuss the struggle to get off the hamster wheel and move forward with a positive life and our journey of living an amazing, alcohol-free life.
For more information on Gil, please visit https://www.soberpowered.com/
Sober Powered Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sober.powered/
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction or substance abuse, please visit https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline
AFTER THE EPISODE LIVE Q&A with host Collier Landry!
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Are you actually having fun?
Speaker:Like we, whatever you fill in the blank, whatever you think alcohol
Speaker:helps you with or does for you.
Speaker:Are you actually having fun?
Speaker:Are you actually less anxious?
Speaker:Are you actually a better parent?
Speaker:Are you actually less depressed?
Speaker:You know, whatever it is, just question.
Speaker:It.
Speaker:It, does it actually help?
Speaker:Are you sure?
Speaker:Are you sure you're having fun when you're socializing?
Speaker:Because I thought I was too, and I like, I humiliated myself so many times.
Speaker:It was awful.
Speaker:That's not fun.
Speaker:Blacking out, getting sloppy, falling down.
Speaker:That's not fun at all.
Speaker:Testimony
Speaker:continued.
Speaker:Today in the most
Speaker:notorious criminal trial in Richland County history.
Speaker:Dr.
Speaker:John Boyle
Speaker:is accused of killing his wife Marine and burying her
Speaker:body in the basement of his new home in Erie, Pennsylvania.
Speaker:The 12 year old son finally took the stand.
Speaker:As I heard a screen,
Speaker:I heard a thud
Speaker:was about this loud.
Speaker:We the jury, find the defendant guilty.
Speaker:When I was 12 years old, my testimony sent my father to
Speaker:prison for murdering my mother.
Speaker:This podcast serves as a type of therapy and reconciliation for
Speaker:myself, and it is my hope that it helps anyone who is experienced
Speaker:deception, betrayal, and dark trauma.
Speaker:I'm Collier Landry, and this is Moving Past Murder.
Speaker:Hey movers.
Speaker:Welcome back to another episode of Moving Past Murder.
Speaker:I'm your host Collier Landry, and what's going on?
Speaker:Happy Friday.
Speaker:1111, and it's actually November 11th, 2022.
Speaker:So that is that 11 11, 11 11.
Speaker:That's a lot of elevens.
Speaker:Uh, I don't know what that really means.
Speaker:I'm sure some of you listeners and viewers do.
Speaker:So if you wouldn't mind, put in the comments.
Speaker:Send me a dm.
Speaker:Let me know what 1111 means for, for you.
Speaker:Uh, what it means for me is I have a great episode, a highly personal episode, much
Speaker:like last week's episode where I shared the news about my dear Chihuahua Blon.
Speaker:Passing away, and I did an all dogs Go to Heaven sort of tribute episode.
Speaker:It was silly, but it was really cathartic for me.
Speaker:So I appreciate you guys listening and writing in and talking
Speaker:about it and your sympathy.
Speaker:I, I, I really appreciate it.
Speaker:Um, she was the light of my world as a lot of, you know, and I miss her terribly,
Speaker:but I won't really dwell on that.
Speaker:Um, what I do wanna talk about is it's a lot of really big changes and this
Speaker:episode has been a long time coming.
Speaker:Uh, I get asked a lot of times when I am out in social situations,
Speaker:Hey man, you want a beer?
Speaker:And I say, No, not anymore.
Speaker:Um, as of last weekend on Saturday, November 5th, I celebrated two
Speaker:years of being alcohol free.
Speaker:It was a choice that I made, like right in the middle of the pandemic.
Speaker:I think a lot of us ibid a little too much during the pandemic.
Speaker:I was definitely one of those people that did what started out
Speaker:as kind of a, a challenge to myself of, let me just try doing this.
Speaker:Giving us up for 30 days.
Speaker:Cuz I was experienced a lot of anxiety in my life and sort
Speaker:of little aches and pains.
Speaker:And even though I'm a really athletic guy, I run, I swim, you know, I was
Speaker:like, ah, I'm not feeling so great.
Speaker:And it wasn't doing me any favors, but I was like, let me try for
Speaker:30 days and see what happens.
Speaker:And 30 days led to 45, led to 90, led to six months, led to a year, and now
Speaker:two years later, and I gotta tell you something, I thought there's no way
Speaker:I'm gonna, um, I'm gonna be able to keep this up or that I'm going to,
Speaker:you know, I think when people wanna give up something, they're like,
Speaker:Oh, it's gonna be all this drag.
Speaker:I'm not gonna have any friends.
Speaker:I'm not gonna, uh, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna be able to go on dates.
Speaker:It's gonna be super awkward.
Speaker:I'll tell you some.
Speaker:I don't miss it at all.
Speaker:, that's just straight up.
Speaker:You save.
Speaker:You feel better.
Speaker:I mean, there's a lot of benefits.
Speaker:If you're looking at giving up alcohol, do it.
Speaker:If not, like, don't listen to me.
Speaker:It, you know, you guys make your own choices.
Speaker:I'm not here to advocate for that.
Speaker:I am gonna say that it helped really alleviate a lot of anxiety
Speaker:in my life that I didn't really understand where it was coming from.
Speaker:It helped me sleep better and just function as a better adult and really
Speaker:a lot more in touch with my feelings.
Speaker:So I wasn't a daily drinker.
Speaker:I was a binge drinker occasionally, like once a month, just, Hey, let's go off.
Speaker:Woo-hoo.
Speaker:Not so good.
Speaker:But, um, I curbed it.
Speaker:So this episode, I met this young lady named Jill Tets this year at Podcast
Speaker:Movements Evolutions, was in Los Angeles.
Speaker:It's a podcast networking conference, and she has a podcast called Sober.
Speaker:Her name is Jill Tets.
Speaker:And we just started talking.
Speaker:I was like, Oh, sober powered.
Speaker:And I had seen her stuff on Instagram before and we started talking, we
Speaker:became friends and uh, I said, You know, I really wanna do an episode
Speaker:about sobriety because what I will say is that a lot of people that experience
Speaker:trauma, it is not, uh, it is not lost on anyone that people turn to substances.
Speaker:I was not one of those people who was lost in my trauma.
Speaker:I didn't start drinking until I was in my late twenties.
Speaker:I definitely made up for lost time.
Speaker:But, um, you know, in college I did, but it wasn't really a part of my life.
Speaker:But I think that, uh, a lot of people find themselves caught up in these cycles
Speaker:and some never really get out of it.
Speaker:And it unfortunately has, you know, a massive toll on their health and their
Speaker:finances and their life in general.
Speaker:You know, things like the heroin epidemic and the opioid epidemic really
Speaker:affect areas of like my beloved home state of Ohio and everywhere, really
Speaker:in the four corners of the world.
Speaker:Uh, so.
Speaker:It is, um, it is something, you know, Hey, if you guys are into it, if
Speaker:you are looking to quit, there are all kinds of resources out there and
Speaker:Jill is a fantastic person for that.
Speaker:But first, as I always do, I want to go to your listener questions,
Speaker:comments, dms of the week.
Speaker:And this one comes from Instagram.
Speaker:This comes from Jennifer Mary.
Speaker:She says, Hi Collier.
Speaker:I recently just learned of your story through coverage of a podcast I follow.
Speaker:I watched your documentary and have since been your podcast.
Speaker:I am also a childhood trauma survivor with a narcissistic parent, a mother for me.
Speaker:I seriously cannot thank you enough for what you are doing.
Speaker:You are our brave and beautiful soul.
Speaker:Please never stop fighting and sharing.
Speaker:I also wanted to pass along my deepest condolences on the
Speaker:loss of your dear Blondie.
Speaker:Animals have been, been my rock cats for me, and I know what you're
Speaker:going through and it breaks my.
Speaker:I lost my 16 year old girly in December, 2021, and her brother 11 is now sick.
Speaker:Blondie will continue to be by your side, and you gave her the best life
Speaker:as she did for you, sending you love, kindness and gratitude your way.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Jennifer, Mary, that is really kind of you to just
Speaker:reach out and share that I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that.
Speaker:I'm glad that this podcast is resonating with you, that my film has resonated with
Speaker:you and that it, you are finding a sort of a source of strength and support in your
Speaker:journey to heal yourself from your trauma.
Speaker:That's really cool.
Speaker:Um, I wanna give a shout out to my new Patreon subscribers as well.
Speaker:So I also wanna give a shout out to my new Patreon subscribers on my Patreon channel,
Speaker:which is patreon.com/collier Landry, Paula Marie Cornell, Naomi Brewster, Shannon
Speaker:Jenkins, Hoda Foreman, Heather Justice.
Speaker:Thank you all for joining my Patreon this month.
Speaker:Um, your support means the world to me.
Speaker:It goes to support this podcast.
Speaker:As you guys know, your listener support is really what makes this podcast possible.
Speaker:I know I talk about this a lot, but I really thank you guys for your support.
Speaker:I am putting newer and bigger content on my Patreon channel, and if I reach certain
Speaker:goals, I'm gonna have some really cool things like behind the scenes of making a
Speaker:murder in Mansfield, exclusive interviews with, you know, members of my family,
Speaker:members of law enforcement conversations I've had, I've had with my father.
Speaker:Uh, I will put all that stuff up.
Speaker:I have it all look for some really exciting content coming out for
Speaker:me in the next couple of months and leading into the new year.
Speaker:That's all I got for that.
Speaker:So I'm pleased to welcome my sober powered friend, Jill Tets to the program.
Speaker:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker:You're welcome.
Speaker:So Jill, you know, we um, we obviously bonded, uh, at podcast Evolutions
Speaker:earlier this year, primarily because I think we were both like trying
Speaker:to figure out what was going on and we needed like a festival.
Speaker:You know, I, I think I told you, I said I needed a festival buddy, but I had
Speaker:come to listen to your talk on stage and you had done just such a fantastic job.
Speaker:And then I, as somebody who had recently gotten sober, um, uh, November 5th,
Speaker:2020 was, or quit drinking rather.
Speaker:And I said, um, you know, I wanted to connect with you and
Speaker:we were sharing our stories.
Speaker:That's kind of how we bonded and we became little festival buddies.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like nonstop buddies.
Speaker:I was thinking today, I'm like, how did we actually meet for the first time?
Speaker:Because I just remember us like hanging out nonstop and I don't
Speaker:remember when, like, how did we actually introduce ourselves?
Speaker:Yeah, I
Speaker:think I just approached you and we just started talking and
Speaker:then we were like, Oh, okay.
Speaker:And like, what are you doing?
Speaker:Which one are you going to?
Speaker:And I think we geeked out over, um, Andrew Huberman.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Because he was there.
Speaker:So Heman Labs and he followed you on Instagram and you were all excited and
Speaker:I was like, he didn't follow me , but I was, you know, I think we gra you know, I
Speaker:gravitated towards you because, you know, my podcast is so, and I think this is
Speaker:true obviously for a lot of podcasters, but they get into this medium because
Speaker:something is very personal for you.
Speaker:And whether it's a personal interest or it's a, it's for
Speaker:myself, it's a personal journey.
Speaker:And for you as well, it's a journey of you.
Speaker:Healing yourself and then, you know, and, and then taking and
Speaker:empowering that to help others.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And you, with your podcast, it's unique because you're not necessarily
Speaker:talking about your drinking days and all of that, but you are sharing real
Speaker:analytical information with your audience.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I don't actually like to share stories about myself very much.
Speaker:People will ask like, can you tell us some embarrassing things you did or
Speaker:like some consequences that you had?
Speaker:And like, I don't really like to get into it.
Speaker:It's a bad memory.
Speaker:Like all of those memories are horrible.
Speaker:I never wanna think about them again if I don't have to.
Speaker:And I try to think more like not about me specifically, just like
Speaker:what's going on, like in our brains and less about like memories.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And you know, I think that I shared with you when I first met you, um,
Speaker:I had read a book years ago called, um, This Naked Mind by Maggie Grace,
Speaker:who also has a podcast, um, called I Believe This Naked Mind actually.
Speaker:And you know how I discovered that book?
Speaker:Because I think, you know, for me, you know, we shared our personal
Speaker:stories with, with, you know, alcohol.
Speaker:And for me, you know, uh, and I haven't really discussed it in this much length
Speaker:on my program before, but people do ask me, Oh, why'd you quit drinking?
Speaker:And I said, You know, for me it just wasn't working anymore.
Speaker:And, uh, I think a lot of people approached me and and said, Oh, you
Speaker:know, oh, well were you getting wasted?
Speaker:Or were you drinking because of your trauma?
Speaker:And it was like, No, I didn't start drinking until I was in my late twenties
Speaker:, you know, I mean really like drinking.
Speaker:And I was a binge drinker and a lot of it.
Speaker:I always talk about my experience in the entertainment industry.
Speaker:You wrap a show, you go out and party.
Speaker:And then for me, it's like I didn't stop for a couple of days, you know?
Speaker:And then I would stop and then life would go back to normal, and then
Speaker:another month would roll by and I'd get super stressed out, and then I would
Speaker:go back and it was a roller coaster and it went on for that like, you
Speaker:know, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years, you know?
Speaker:And until I finally just said, you know, it started to slow down in the end
Speaker:because I was, you know, working so much.
Speaker:And obviously I made a film about my life and I, I had pauses in my life where I
Speaker:would like, okay, I'm not gonna drink for six months, but then six months
Speaker:world by, I'm like, Oh, I'll get a beer.
Speaker:And then, you know, two days later I wake up and I'm like, Okay, I just,
Speaker:you know, this just basically took, took two days off, which I had off.
Speaker:It wasn't like I had responsibilities, but it was beginning to interfere.
Speaker:And, and for me it was the anxiety.
Speaker:I had so much anxiety.
Speaker:And it wasn't really until I discovered that alcohol was
Speaker:the cause of that anxiety.
Speaker:Because we, we, you know, one of the things that I.
Speaker:I find very interesting when I read your posts, when I listen to your message,
Speaker:your episodes, you, I mean, you just did a post yesterday talking about,
Speaker:you know how, and Maggie talks about this because she, I believe worked
Speaker:in the marketing industry, right?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And you know, the placement of bottles when you go into a bar
Speaker:and how sexy everything looks and how the alcohol industry makes,
Speaker:they glamorize everything, right?
Speaker:They don't glamorize you laying in the street, you know, puking
Speaker:on your peak down your shirt.
Speaker:They glamorize the nightlife and the party life and you know, there are people that
Speaker:can drink like that and have a good time.
Speaker:But you know, I was not one of those people and you
Speaker:weren't one of those people.
Speaker:So I guess what I'm interested in is, talk to me about your journey of that.
Speaker:When you, where you started, where you said, this is enough.
Speaker:And then what you decided to do
Speaker:about it?
Speaker:So I started late too.
Speaker:Um, so I didn't start drinking until I was 22.
Speaker:I had my very first drink at 18 and then I had a big gap.
Speaker:So I didn't drink in high school because I was bullied.
Speaker:So I was just never invited anywhere.
Speaker:And it obviously sucked in the moment, but looking back I see it as really
Speaker:protective because I didn't have the opportunity to get drunk and hook
Speaker:up with guys or try drugs and like all this stuff, I was protected.
Speaker:And I imagine like what would've happened if I started sooner or
Speaker:if I was introduced to drugs?
Speaker:So I didn't start until I was 22 and I drank because that's what
Speaker:you do when you're stressed out.
Speaker:Kinda like you were saying a minute ago, Like when you're stressed, you
Speaker:drink and then your stress goes away.
Speaker:That's just like what we do.
Speaker:And I learned that from other people.
Speaker:Like modeling that for me and telling me that.
Speaker:And whenever I would be stressed, people would give me alcohol or suggest that
Speaker:we go out and then I would feel better.
Speaker:So then I believe like, okay, this is what, this is what
Speaker:you do, this is what works.
Speaker:And the problem was I was a very stressed out individual, so I drank every day.
Speaker:. I started doing that like pretty quickly, like within the first
Speaker:year I started drinking every day.
Speaker:And I also had this belief from the media that that's like what classy adults do.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:They come home and they share a bottle of wine and that's like, that's how,
Speaker:you know, like you made it, you know?
Speaker:Um, except I was drinking more than that.
Speaker:I could pretend.
Speaker:Oh
Speaker:yeah, you're like, appetizer.
Speaker:Appetizer.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, that's what I drink before I even start
Speaker:eating . That's the pregame drinks.
Speaker:It's the pregame warmup.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, and unfortunately for me, I never had control over the amount that I drank.
Speaker:Um, I just, I couldn't understand like why I would stop when was enough to stop.
Speaker:Like I couldn't understand like, the number of drinks that was enough.
Speaker:Like, some people have that voice where they're like, Okay, three drinks,
Speaker:you know, I gotta get up tomorrow.
Speaker:I, I had no understanding of that.
Speaker:I was like, Okay, three drinks, four would be more amazing,
Speaker:five would be more amazing.
Speaker:Like, just keep going until bedtime.
Speaker:Why would you stop?
Speaker:And that got me in trouble a lot.
Speaker:Um, I got really sick a lot.
Speaker:I got sick in public a lot.
Speaker:Um, very glamorous, got sick on dates, , it's like a whole thing.
Speaker:Um, and I just thought it was normal.
Speaker:And that's the worst part, like we think cuz we laugh off that behavior
Speaker:and people just think it's okay and we think everybody does it.
Speaker:And slowly over the years I started realizing no one else did it.
Speaker:I hadn't, like you hear that, that's normal behavior, but I
Speaker:wasn't seeing anyone else drink the way that I was drinking.
Speaker:And I was starting to pick up on that.
Speaker:Like, I would watch my husband drink or I would watch my friends or my family
Speaker:or whoever drink random strangers.
Speaker:And I never saw anyone drink the way that I did.
Speaker:I never saw.
Speaker:Throw up in the street except for me.
Speaker:Um, I've never seen anyone do that before, but I did it so many
Speaker:times and slowly I started to question like, do I have a problem?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Am I, am I an alcoholic?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then I would convince myself like, no, me, I have a master's degree.
Speaker:I'm married.
Speaker:I don't have a dui.
Speaker:Like I would list, I've never missed work because of a hangover.
Speaker:Like I had this big long list of why I didn't have a problem.
Speaker:But I had this question in the back of my head, and I had this knowledge that
Speaker:no one else was doing what I was doing.
Speaker:That my husband, he used to make me so mad because we would drink and party
Speaker:and then he would switch to water.
Speaker:And then the next day he would wake up and live his life and continue on.
Speaker:And I would wake up the next day destroyed.
Speaker:And I used to get mad at him, like, Why, why aren't you making me stop too?
Speaker:Like I made it his responsibility.
Speaker:Oh my God, why aren't you helping me?
Speaker:And I tried to like, get him in on it and it was awful.
Speaker:And I just couldn't stop.
Speaker:I had, I had no off switch.
Speaker:But I'm sure that that's a common thing in a relationship to dynamic, especially if
Speaker:you're married and one person is the norm.
Speaker:Me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And they can just have a couple of drinks and they can go, they can regulate
Speaker:and go, Okay, I'm going to water, or switching the coconut water, or I'm gonna
Speaker:do these preemptive, like preemptive things to prevent that hangover.
Speaker:You know, I, I would often, like, I would take charcoal tablets
Speaker:cuz the charcoal would help, you know, filter out the stuff.
Speaker:So I would, I would, I would prepare with like, I'm gonna take
Speaker:some electrolytes or I remember.
Speaker:Because for me, I would just suffer through the hangover.
Speaker:Like, Yep.
Speaker:It's so funny.
Speaker:Like I would put alcohol in my system, but if you told me to take an ibuprofen, I'd
Speaker:be like, I'm not putting that in my body.
Speaker:Like, and I, and I still feel that way.
Speaker:I mean, for me to take an ibuprofen if I took, I'll even tell somebody
Speaker:if, like, if I took, I took an ibuprofen, they were like, Whoa, okay.
Speaker:Because I wouldn't, And I remember, you know, I had friends that would,
Speaker:you know, they would take Xanax to come down and, you know, they'd be going
Speaker:through anxiety and things like that.
Speaker:And I wouldn't take anything.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I just remember suffering through the worst hangovers.
Speaker:And for me it would be, you know, then the anxiety would
Speaker:kick in and I couldn't sleep.
Speaker:And then I would show, I, I would have to go to work or I'd have to work
Speaker:the next day, whatever it was doing.
Speaker:And I was just like, I had this, just anxiety.
Speaker:And then that anxiety would turn into like a rush, right?
Speaker:And then you're, you're under duress, so now you're really gonna
Speaker:focus in and hone in and get.
Speaker:Everything done you need to get done in a very compressed
Speaker:amount of time, which worked.
Speaker:And so therefore I could convince myself, Okay, well I'm good.
Speaker:I'll work this out.
Speaker:You know, eventually I, I won't feel like this.
Speaker:And, um, I'll, I'll regulate my, you know, my, cuz it was, I was a binger, right?
Speaker:So, and I'll take three weeks off and I won't do anything.
Speaker:I'll go back to the gym and I'll do this.
Speaker:But it's, it's a vicious cycle.
Speaker:And the mind is such a, you know, they say, I, I, I, you know, I didn't
Speaker:go through the program to, to quit.
Speaker:Did you go through the program?
Speaker:No, I just quit and then eventually went to therapy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I started therapy and then I actually started taking Lexapro
Speaker:to regulate my, my ups and downs.
Speaker:And then I drank while I took Lexapro.
Speaker:That was not a pretty thing cuz you shouldn't drink when you take something
Speaker:like that, that's an anxiety drug.
Speaker:And then when I quit, I just started therapy and I actually sought out
Speaker:a therapist who was an addiction specialist or had, who was an
Speaker:addiction specialist, but he had a background in residential treatment.
Speaker:And I was like, look, I come with a whole, like for me, I
Speaker:can say, here's a documentary.
Speaker:I want you to want
Speaker:Do your homework.
Speaker:Do your homework so I don't have to spend 10 therapy sessions telling
Speaker:you the introduction to all of this.
Speaker:And then I want to quit drinking because I have anxiety because
Speaker:it's, it's work induced, it's stressed and lifestyle induced.
Speaker:And I'm on this program, I've gotten clean and I've, I've started, I've
Speaker:stopped drinking today and I wanna move forward, you know, And that was how
Speaker:I introd myself to my therapist cuz I wanted somebody that had that background.
Speaker:And it's been great.
Speaker:I'm with the same therapist who we are almost two years later and
Speaker:I'm with the same therapist and it's still, and now it's not even,
Speaker:you know, It's a non-issue for me.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I have people that reach out to me that say, How did you quit drinking?
Speaker:And I tell them what, you know, I just, I just stopped like one day.
Speaker:You're just, if you will just go, I've had enough.
Speaker:I've had enough.
Speaker:I'm good.
Speaker:You know, And you've had enough second chances.
Speaker:You've had enough close calls and you just say, I'm done.
Speaker:And I think that's, That's where you were.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the annoying thing, like I used to go in Facebook groups, even though
Speaker:I was trying to moderate my drinking for almost all of my drinking.
Speaker:And I would go on Facebook groups, sober Facebook groups, and I couldn't take the
Speaker:hint, you're seeking out sober groups, but you're trying to moderate, Like I
Speaker:wasn't looking for moderation groups.
Speaker:I was joining sober groups.
Speaker:And I would post about, you know, Oh, I tried this.
Speaker:It didn't work.
Speaker:Or, Whatever.
Speaker:And everyone was so kind to me, and I did that for years.
Speaker:And what people say often when someone struggles is like, It's
Speaker:okay, You're just not ready.
Speaker:You're just not there yet.
Speaker:And that used to infuriate me.
Speaker:And I know that makes other people mad too, but it's really the truth.
Speaker:And that's what you were saying, like one day it just clicked and you were
Speaker:ready and you were like, Okay, I'm done.
Speaker:Like for me, one day it clicked and I was like, Wow, I really can't drink.
Speaker:Like I'm a nightmare.
Speaker:I will never be able to drink any other way.
Speaker:And then I stopped.
Speaker:But yeah, a lot of people will stay in that like not
Speaker:ready stage for so many years.
Speaker:And I hate that we have to say that like, you're not ready, You're not there yet.
Speaker:But it takes so much time and.
Speaker:You know, every day that goes by and every time you drink and like blow up your life
Speaker:and then you reflect on it, like you're getting closer at least to that point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's interesting for me, you know, I, I was that same way, right?
Speaker:And I would go on, I would go to these, these date, we were probably in the
Speaker:same group looking at the same message.
Speaker:I would be, you know, researching it.
Speaker:And then again, it's not a moderation thing.
Speaker:I'd be like, Okay, what did people look, you know, what did people do?
Speaker:And I even went to AA and I would, and I would go to those meeting, this
Speaker:is before I quit, but cuz I would take, obviously I would take breaks.
Speaker:Like, I definitely had periods when I, when I started drinking to when I quit,
Speaker:where I would take, you know, three months off, six months off, you know, a year off.
Speaker:Um, but then I would come back to it because I wouldn't, it wasn't
Speaker:like, because for me it wasn't, this is never gonna happen again.
Speaker:You know, this is like, I'm just gonna take a period to just do whatever right.
Speaker:And, uh, it was interesting cuz I would be in those groups or I would go to a,
Speaker:you know, to aa and it was, it was great.
Speaker:But I would think in those groups, I think to myself, sometimes I'm
Speaker:like, God, I really wanna leave and they wanna have a drink.
Speaker:, I've heard that from so many people
Speaker:cuz you hear people's stories of like their rock bottoms, right?
Speaker:And you're like, Okay, that's depressing.
Speaker:And I didn't have like a rock bottom story per se.
Speaker:I mean, I'm, I'm sure I do have a rock bottom, right?
Speaker:But I didn't have a rock, I mean a rock bottom for me.
Speaker:But I wasn't like, okay, I'm gonna be homeless.
Speaker:I have no job, I have no career.
Speaker:It is interfering because, I mean, this is one of the things that my grace
Speaker:talks about is like when you are in that state where you're like, I don't have a.
Speaker:You're like, Well, I make all this money.
Speaker:I have a great career.
Speaker:I have a family.
Speaker:I'm married.
Speaker:It's not affecting my marriage.
Speaker:It's not like, it's not affecting the things around me.
Speaker:And you don't really realize that it is affecting the things around you.
Speaker:You're just not aware of that.
Speaker:And as you become aware of that, you go, Oh, okay.
Speaker:Um, and that's what happened with me is, and then I would be in these, you
Speaker:know, these rooms and I would be like, Okay, well now I really wanna drink.
Speaker:And then you find other people that are not sober that are in
Speaker:there, and then you're like, Okay.
Speaker:And for me it was like, you know, I had a friend who was in the program
Speaker:for 10 years, and then she was like, You need to go to the program.
Speaker:This guy was like, this was right at the end, right before I quit, like probably
Speaker:a week before I quit, I met this guy.
Speaker:She's like, Oh, he should be your sponsor.
Speaker:And he goes, Yeah, you need to go.
Speaker:He's like, I go to four meetings a day and I've been doing it for the last,
Speaker:like 10 years, and this is during the middle of the pandemic, of course.
Speaker:And I said to him, I go, Okay, four hours a day.
Speaker:And I thought about like how much if I broke down, cuz you know, it
Speaker:would be like two or three days a month I would drink, right?
Speaker:And if I broke that down hourly per day, it would be like four.
Speaker:Cuz I was very analytical and I think you're the same way.
Speaker:So we start going, Okay, well we have this amount of time, we
Speaker:have this amount of time, right?
Speaker:And I started thinking, well, okay, I spend four hours a day drinking.
Speaker:And I thought, well the whole point of me not drinking is cuz I don't want
Speaker:alcohol to have any control over my life.
Speaker:So what is the difference?
Speaker:Obviously it's a healthier choice to not, and this is not, look for
Speaker:anyone listening, you get help or you can get help if you have a problem.
Speaker:Drinking 12 step programs, aa, whatever is a great way if you, for you to
Speaker:find a support system hands down.
Speaker:So I'm not, you know, I'm not putting that down for me.
Speaker:It wasn't a choice that I found worked for me, but for others it's done wonders.
Speaker:Um, but I just remember thinking to myself, I said to him, I said, Well, what
Speaker:is the difference between, other than the health benefits of not drinking, but
Speaker:going to AA four day, four hours a day.
Speaker:Alcohol still has a control over your life.
Speaker:And he didn't like that very much, but he was like, At least I'm not drinking.
Speaker:But that's when it really clicked with me.
Speaker:I was like, Okay, I don't, I don't even want that.
Speaker:Like then that's not a solution for me.
Speaker:The solution is cut the shit out and be done with it.
Speaker:And that's what I did, you know?
Speaker:Um, when you quit, how long did you know?
Speaker:There's, And I would always read things, Oh, it's gonna take you
Speaker:a month to get your sleep back.
Speaker:You're gonna crave sugar, you're gonna have all these things.
Speaker:What was that like for you, those initial first days?
Speaker:Cause I feel like that's where I always wanted to hear with people
Speaker:with the, their sober stories.
Speaker:Like what, Okay, you just decided this.
Speaker:What's it like 12 hours later?
Speaker:What's it like a day later?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I quit twice, so I did, and, and both are different.
Speaker:That's why I bring it up.
Speaker:So I quit for 90 days.
Speaker:Um, To cure myself so that I could drink normally again.
Speaker:And moderate.
Speaker:I did the 90 days and it wasn't that hard.
Speaker:So naturally I must have been cured.
Speaker:I wasn't.
Speaker:Um, but when I quit that time, I just, I did it myself.
Speaker:I didn't get any support.
Speaker:Like I was kind of in those groups on Facebook, but I was just
Speaker:living like the same exact life.
Speaker:I had just plucked out my favorite thing, which was the center of my life.
Speaker:I was a daily drinker, so like my life revolved around drinking alcohol.
Speaker:So I lived the same exact life just without drinking.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I was angry and cranky, um, and depressed.
Speaker:Like the whole time.
Speaker:I was so upset.
Speaker:My emotions were everywhere.
Speaker:It, I would get very overwhelmed and not know like what to do about it.
Speaker:And then when I quit the second time, when I quit for good, I had less of
Speaker:that because I also had acceptance and I knew like I had to do some work.
Speaker:Um, but my sleep was awful.
Speaker:I had really bad insomnia for like three weeks.
Speaker:So sometimes people will reach out to me and they'll say like,
Speaker:they went back to drinking.
Speaker:Like they tried, they got two weeks and they still can't sleep.
Speaker:And I was like, Ugh, you needed like one more, one more week and
Speaker:now you've reset and you gotta do those two horrible weeks again.
Speaker:But it takes, everybody's gonna be different.
Speaker:It takes like three to four weeks to see an improvement.
Speaker:For most people it's, your sleep's not gonna be perfect, but it's gonna start
Speaker:to improve cuz withdrawal lasts 14 days.
Speaker:So if you're doing like a few days or like a week or so, You're
Speaker:still in withdrawal, even if you don't feel like trash every day.
Speaker:Um, so that was hard.
Speaker:And I had really bad night sweats.
Speaker:I don't know if you got that, but I was so sweaty.
Speaker:My husband and I used to laugh.
Speaker:He stays up later than me.
Speaker:And he would come in the bed and he would just be like, It is, it is so wet in here,
Speaker:. And I just feel like, I'm sorry, honey.
Speaker:Like it was soaked.
Speaker:It was so sweaty.
Speaker:Um, and then later the sugar cravings came in.
Speaker:Oh, interesting.
Speaker:Yeah, I didn't have those right away.
Speaker:I had more like withdrawal type things and then later, like the more
Speaker:emotional symptoms and sugar cravings and that kind of thing came in.
Speaker:But sugar cravings can be pretty hardcore.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:I remember a guy said to me one time, he goes, he goes, Eat the sugar.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Don't drink the booze.
Speaker:, eat the sugar.
Speaker:Take the lesser of two evils.
Speaker:Trust me.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And I was like, Oh, okay.
Speaker:I was like, That works.
Speaker:And I, and I, yeah, I, I, but it's, it's wild because I can sometimes go on a
Speaker:little bit of a sugar bender occasionally.
Speaker:Like I have, well, think I was just in Ohio at a family reunion and
Speaker:it's like, chocolate chip cookies, homemade chocolate chip cookies.
Speaker:I'll eat those till I, till I, you know, turn blue in the
Speaker:case or till they're gone.
Speaker:Like they're gone and I'm just giving me milk or forget it.
Speaker:But, um, those sugar cravings were just like, I was eating candy and just,
Speaker:you know, and it lasted about a week.
Speaker:It was, it was, it was, it was crazy.
Speaker:It was, it was a, a thing and you're like, and you think to yourself.
Speaker:And then for me, I think that I realized like, Oh my God, how much
Speaker:sugar does alcohol really have in it?
Speaker:Because I was drinking just vodka.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Just like vodka and soda.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So no sweet drinks, like vodka was my thing.
Speaker:And then if I didn't do vodka, I would do beer, but like high alcohol
Speaker:content, beer, like Tripels or whatever.
Speaker:And so those have very high in calories, like extremely high in calories.
Speaker:And I didn't realize it was just so much tricky.
Speaker:Might as well be drinking Pepsi all day, you know, Or Pepsi.
Speaker:And I would never drink a Pepsi.
Speaker:Like, you'd be like, Here's Pepsi.
Speaker:I'd be like, I'm not drinking that.
Speaker:Never do.
Speaker:That's gross.
Speaker:That's so bad for you.
Speaker:So bad for
Speaker:you.
Speaker:And it just, you're just like, Oh my God.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I won't take an ibuprofen.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:It's, um, it's, it's nutty.
Speaker:I remember that I would be so hungover, but I would always be very
Speaker:regimented going to the gym every day.
Speaker:So I would go to the gym, like hungover or probably still drunk.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And just try it because I get my workout in or I gotta go to the
Speaker:sauna and sweat it out or whatever.
Speaker:I mean, just the madness would talk to me about the cycle.
Speaker:The cycle of the madness.
Speaker:Yeah, I did that too.
Speaker:I went to the gym six days a week.
Speaker:I tracked my stupid macros.
Speaker:I like, I had a notebook where I would like write down my progressive overload.
Speaker:Like I was really serious, hungover every day.
Speaker:Um, it's awful.
Speaker:And part of that is I think, to prove to ourselves that we don't have a problem.
Speaker:See, I, I don't miss the gym ever.
Speaker:If I had a problem, I wouldn't be able to go in the morning.
Speaker:I wouldn't be able to get up at five 30.
Speaker:Part of it is like proof that we can hold it together.
Speaker:Um, but for me, where the madness comes in is like, you hold it together like that.
Speaker:Like you're barely holding it together and you're doing, you're
Speaker:going to work hungover, you're going to the gym hungover, and
Speaker:you're, you know, living your life bare minimum, like just getting by.
Speaker:And then you'll have a really bad night for some reason.
Speaker:Like, you'll just really go for it and just like destroy, like maybe I threw
Speaker:up in the street that night or like threw up in the, on the subway platform
Speaker:or had like a really bad blackout.
Speaker:Like some, it'll happen like one day you'll just like go way too far and
Speaker:then you can't hold it together and you can't do these bare minimum things.
Speaker:And then that, that thought of like, maybe I have a problem, starts to creep in.
Speaker:And then, you know, you, you convince yourself you don't, and then you
Speaker:like recover and you go back to your normal low baseline and you're like,
Speaker:Okay, I can't possibly have a problem.
Speaker:I'm going to the gym every day and over and over.
Speaker:And then you just keep like getting lower and your baseline gets lower and
Speaker:lower and lower until, for I think both of us, we can't convince ourselves we
Speaker:don't have an issue with it anymore.
Speaker:And then you have to really just look at it and be like, Wow.
Speaker:And then you have, you know, at least in my industry, right, entertainment
Speaker:industry, there's a lot of substances.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Whether it be drugs, alcohol, whatever.
Speaker:And I, you know, I would always find, well, you know, at least I'm
Speaker:not like that guy or this guy isn't where, like you, you have, you find
Speaker:these little comparisons, right?
Speaker:You go, Well, I didn't do this, or then you, then you, then you realize that
Speaker:you don't have your act together, and then somebody else just points it out.
Speaker:And then you're like, Well bro, but I remember this and that one, you know,
Speaker:you get back and forth into these conversations where you're just literally
Speaker:trying to have, you're, you're, you're literally just trying to convince
Speaker:yourself of like, I don't have a problem.
Speaker:Somebody said that.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:And I wanna say it's like Mark Marin, and then maybe I heard her on his show or
Speaker:something, but he was talking about it.
Speaker:It wasn't, you don't become addicted to the, to the substance anymore.
Speaker:You end up becoming addicted to the madness of it.
Speaker:I mean, I, the vicious cycle.
Speaker:, I think about that with myself.
Speaker:And I almost wonder, as someone who's been through trauma, like, you
Speaker:know, as I get more, you know, as I have more and more time, right?
Speaker:I start to think about, well, was that a possibility that in sort of, you
Speaker:know, the back of my mind that maybe perhaps that feeling of uncomfortability
Speaker:and that feeling of stress and duress actually reminded me of a time in my
Speaker:life when I went through, through what I went through personally, the murdered
Speaker:my mother by my father and being abandoned and all this stuff, right?
Speaker:So maybe it, it made me feel like that, or, you know, and that there
Speaker:was a comfortability with that.
Speaker:I mean, I haven't really fully delved into that too much, but it is definitely
Speaker:something I keep thinking about.
Speaker:I mean, what do you think about
Speaker:that?
Speaker:I think a lot about that.
Speaker:I have two things to say about that.
Speaker:Um, I wanna hear.
Speaker:. So along the lines of what you're saying about the madness, I think we get addicted
Speaker:to chaos and drama because it's like all we know and we become comfortable
Speaker:with that and we don't know how to just be, we don't know how to like have
Speaker:peace and that feels like bad for us.
Speaker:And we like the chaos and the drama and we thrive on it.
Speaker:And we're like searching for bad friends and bad partners and, and like making
Speaker:things worse than they are so that we can inject all of this chaos into our lives.
Speaker:So I think that's part of it.
Speaker:But another part that's really interesting that I think like specifically applies
Speaker:to you is trauma changes your brain.
Speaker:It just changes your brain.
Speaker:And, um, I'll send this to you if you remind me later, but.
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:There was a study that I love that looked at two groups of people.
Speaker:Neither one had addiction issues.
Speaker:They were normal people.
Speaker:One group had childhood trauma, the other group did not,
Speaker:and they gave them morphine.
Speaker:The group that did not have trauma, you know, felt kind of nauseous and
Speaker:like they didn't really like it.
Speaker:The group with the childhood trauma felt euphoric, and I had morphine
Speaker:when I was like 23 or something.
Speaker:I had a really bad kidney infection and I was in the hospital.
Speaker:I thought it was literally the best thing that's ever been invented.
Speaker:It was amazing, and I've had trauma, but trauma can change your brain, so,
Speaker:Drugs and alcohol feel more pleasurable, they're more rewarding for you.
Speaker:So then you're more sensitive to the effects.
Speaker:You're more sensitive to both the euphoria, but then also like the
Speaker:anxiety reduction effects and like how it helps you with your stress
Speaker:or helps you with your depression.
Speaker:Like you become more sensitive to it.
Speaker:So if alcohol does a better job or drugs or whatever it is of fixing
Speaker:your mental health problem, sure.
Speaker:You're more inclined to do it all the time.
Speaker:Like if you, like my husband drinks two drinks and he starts to feel like tired
Speaker:and like headachey, I drink two drinks.
Speaker:I'm like, let's go.
Speaker:I, I've never felt this good in my entire life.
Speaker:So that's, so with trauma it makes things like affect you more, so
Speaker:you're more likely to do them.
Speaker:And the more and more and more you repeat the behavior, the
Speaker:easier it is to become addicted.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:So, I don't know your brain.
Speaker:I've never looked at it.
Speaker:Never
Speaker:cracked it open.
Speaker:But,
Speaker:but maybe, Maybe you're more sensitive to the euphoric effects of drugs and alcohol.
Speaker:That's a really interesting point.
Speaker:I never thought about that.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And I, I guess I never thought about it because I never, I was never like,
Speaker:Oh, I feel bad about what happened to me, so I'm gonna self-medicate.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It was never like, I was never drinking to self-medicate.
Speaker:I mean, Sure, okay.
Speaker:Like, okay, yeah, the girl breaks up to me.
Speaker:I'll go get was of my buddies.
Speaker:Okay, whatever like that occasionally, right?
Speaker:But it was never like, Oh, I'm living in my trauma.
Speaker:I feel like a bad person.
Speaker:I wanna do this.
Speaker:I just wanna get, No, it was always like, I would drink and I would
Speaker:feel great, and then I wouldn't wanna stop that great feeling.
Speaker:And then two days later I didn't feel so great when I stopped.
Speaker:And that's what sucked.
Speaker:You know, that's where it was like, okay, this is a destructive habit for me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the way that mine showed up is I couldn't deal with any emotions.
Speaker:I never, like, I never learned how to do that, and everything would overwhelm me.
Speaker:I was always like right on the brink of being set off and being
Speaker:like, too overwhelmed to function.
Speaker:Um, and like having a nervous breakdown, like that kind of
Speaker:feeling, alcohol brought that down.
Speaker:So when I would feel like very overwhelmed, I could drink
Speaker:alcohol, and then I was like, I can deal with my life now.
Speaker:And I thought it was helping and I wasn't actively like sitting around
Speaker:like, Oh my, my trauma, my hardship.
Speaker:Like all these bad things are happening.
Speaker:But it was those bad things.
Speaker:That then made me incapable of dealing with anything.
Speaker:And that's why I had, it was like my day to day, just the way that I existed.
Speaker:That was a result of everything I went through and the, and because
Speaker:I had no tools, I didn't know how to, how to cope, alcohol, fixed it.
Speaker:I started with food and I was like, Okay, if I binge eat,
Speaker:you know, this is, this is fun.
Speaker:Like this makes me feel good.
Speaker:Or if I don't eat at all, like it does this, it makes me feel
Speaker:powerful and like in control.
Speaker:But then I discovered alcohol and that just did it so much better.
Speaker:And, and then eventually you have to learn how to actually deal with things.
Speaker:You can't just use like substances or restricting food or like exercising or
Speaker:sex to control your emotions anymore.
Speaker:Yeah, just sugar.
Speaker:Just
Speaker:sugar , you know?
Speaker:Uh, It's interesting that you mentioned other things and it's, um, you know,
Speaker:I feel, I feel like alcohol has this double edged sword, and I know that you
Speaker:speak about this where, you know, Yeah.
Speaker:There's a, there's an ad that literally annoys the living piss out
Speaker:of me, and it's that Jim Beam ad.
Speaker:And if you've seen this, they play it during the NBA game and
Speaker:it's like, wherever Jim Beam is welcome, you'll be welcome too.
Speaker:It's like this thing, and I'm just like, I, nobody is welcome there,
Speaker:. I'm like, literally I'm angry.
Speaker:And the girl with the nose ring and she's hepping cool.
Speaker:And she's like, eh, she hands on the thing and she's like, I'm
Speaker:just like, I hate that ad so much.
Speaker:That, and the bud lives the Budweiser Selter ads or soda ads I get.
Speaker:So those are my new ones that I'm just like, I hate those so much because it's
Speaker:this just like this, uh, It's just this welcoming, just like everything is good
Speaker:and life is awesome, and I'm just like, It is so not, And I read something and,
Speaker:and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I remember reading something, and maybe
Speaker:it's even in this naked mind, but where when you take that sip of alcohol, as
Speaker:soon as you have the alcohol in your body and it starts to process, you're
Speaker:going through withdrawals automatically.
Speaker:So that's why you want more if you're in that space.
Speaker:Is that true?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So as you're drinking, you become, you know, more and more intoxicated obviously.
Speaker:And your liver is like fighting like, Oh, we gotta get rid of this.
Speaker:We gotta process it.
Speaker:And then a couple hours after you start, you stop, then you're in withdrawals and
Speaker:it happens quick, quicker than we realize.
Speaker:You might still be kind of drunk when it's happening, when you
Speaker:make the switch over and then that makes you crave alcohol because you
Speaker:might have anxiety from withdrawal.
Speaker:Insomnia like we talked about, and alcohol corrects those problems.
Speaker:So now you're craving alcohol to fix the problem that alcohol just caused.
Speaker:And then you're just making your problems even worse because the longer you drink,
Speaker:the more like your body learns to rely on it, and the worse your anxiety becomes.
Speaker:Like if you're, you know, I, I started having anxiety after
Speaker:drinking alcohol when I was 28.
Speaker:And I stopped drinking, um, like right before I was 30.
Speaker:If I was still drinking now at 32, that anxiety would be so much worse.
Speaker:And that's where people get stuck is they drink and drink and drink,
Speaker:and then they start to come down and the anxiety is so powerful
Speaker:that they just like can't survive.
Speaker:So they drink again, and then they need more and more and more and more
Speaker:alcohol to hold that anxiety off.
Speaker:And then the anxiety gets so much worse every time they try to stop
Speaker:and it, it makes it so it's like almost impossible for them to stop
Speaker:because the anxiety is so bad.
Speaker:It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker:It's so sad.
Speaker:It's very sad and, and you have to just like, it sucks for the first
Speaker:like two weeks or so, depending on the person, especially that first week.
Speaker:Like it's gonna suck.
Speaker:If you have anxiety after drinking alcohol, like you're gonna feel really
Speaker:bad for the first few days and you're gonna have to just not drink and trust
Speaker:that you're gonna feel better eventually.
Speaker:But the more we just like pile on the alcohol, the worse that
Speaker:anxiety gets and then we can't.
Speaker:We can't even try to not drink because it's so bad.
Speaker:Like people will go to the emergency room for anxiety and
Speaker:cuz it's that bad for them.
Speaker:Yep, yep.
Speaker:Yeah, they will.
Speaker:It's um, it is, uh, yeah, it is a vicious, vicious cycle.
Speaker:What would you say to people that are like, what if you
Speaker:could do it all over again?
Speaker:I mean, obviously you probably wouldn't drink, but if you had to do it all over
Speaker:again, what would you say to someone?
Speaker:Because for some people it almost feels like, you know, when I quit drinking,
Speaker:they were like, God, I can't imagine that it's so difficult like every.
Speaker:How do you socialize?
Speaker:How do you, And even for me, I remember thinking like, How will I be fun?
Speaker:How will I be the, I am way more fun sober.
Speaker:You're super fun.
Speaker:Way more fun.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, , we're, we're both super fun, we're both super fun.
Speaker:And I, and I'm thinking to myself like, I don't miss any of that.
Speaker:I can actually stay up later, you know, if I'm out with friends and they're,
Speaker:and I was just watching a friend and was at this event and she was just a mess.
Speaker:And she had this purse that she had bought of, you know, YSL purse.
Speaker:And it felt, and everybody was watching her and just like,
Speaker:Oh, she's just, she was a mess.
Speaker:And she was, I don't know, she showed uploaded, but she got loaded
Speaker:quick and I just looked at her and I just was, I felt so bad.
Speaker:Cause I was like, Oh, I remember those days.
Speaker:I mean, she was a mess.
Speaker:And her boyfriend's there helping her and just everybody and, and
Speaker:everyone else was drinking, but no one else was drinking like her.
Speaker:And I just, and I have a, a friend.
Speaker:Who was there, who had also just recently quit drinking, who I had, you know,
Speaker:inspired to like quit drinking, Right.
Speaker:And she was saying, God, I just, I felt so bad for her.
Speaker:I wanted to, you know, I see that and I, but I'm glad that I see that because I go,
Speaker:Okay, I don't wanna be that person again.
Speaker:Um, what do, but what do you say to that person that's really struggling,
Speaker:like, you know, with not only like these social situations, like how,
Speaker:how do you get through to them?
Speaker:So two things.
Speaker:Um, the first thing that I would say, are you actually having fun?
Speaker:Like we, whatever you fill in the blank, whatever you think alcohol helps you with
Speaker:or does for, Are you actually having fun?
Speaker:Are you actually less anxious?
Speaker:Are you actually a better parent?
Speaker:Are you actually less depressed?
Speaker:You know, whatever it is, just question.
Speaker:It, it, does it actually help?
Speaker:Are you sure?
Speaker:Are you sure you're having fun when you're socializing?
Speaker:Because I thought I was too, and I, like, I humiliated myself so many times.
Speaker:It was awful.
Speaker:That's not fun.
Speaker:Blacking out, getting sloppy, falling down.
Speaker:That's not fun at all.
Speaker:Um, so question that and pay attention.
Speaker:Like we don't, Alcohol prevents us from being able to have self-awareness.
Speaker:So this is hard.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But try to look back on your experiences and instead of saying
Speaker:like, I'm the biggest loser ever.
Speaker:I'm the worst.
Speaker:I hate myself every, everybody thinks I suck.
Speaker:I'm a terrible parent or spouse.
Speaker:Like all of these things where we beat ourselves up.
Speaker:Try to reflect on the moment and actually think about what
Speaker:happened, what made you drink?
Speaker:Did you get the outcome that you were looking for?
Speaker:What actually happened in the night?
Speaker:Like we, we focus on that first hour and we're like, Oh, drinking so fun.
Speaker:Like, I feel so much less stress and it helps my anxiety and it,
Speaker:it makes me like more social.
Speaker:Does it though?
Speaker:What about hour four?
Speaker:Like think through the whole experience.
Speaker:That's what I would encourage people to do.
Speaker:And the next morning and when you go to bed at night, like that counts.
Speaker:That's part of the whole experience.
Speaker:So don't just focus on that like one hour, think about the whole
Speaker:thing and then ask herself that.
Speaker:Like if she reflected on that and was like, Did I actually really have fun?
Speaker:And she looked back, she'd be like, Ooh, I don't wanna have
Speaker:that kind of fun ever again.
Speaker:I think you just made, you made a post recently and you said something like,
Speaker:alcohol doesn't make you socialize, It makes you tolerate people and
Speaker:experiences that you don't like
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And that is so true.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And it's almost like, I feel like when I say to people, you know, because I,
Speaker:I obviously don't get asked a lot like you do, but they asked me, they were
Speaker:like, Oh, I heard you quit drinking.
Speaker:Oh, I saw that in one of your posts.
Speaker:Or, Oh, I heard you talk about that on the podcast.
Speaker:What did you like, What were you doing?
Speaker:And I think I was like, you know, one of the things I say is I started
Speaker:doing things that I felt were, that I, I really wanted to be a part of.
Speaker:And that was a big part for me of like, I'm gonna do
Speaker:activities that I really enjoy.
Speaker:I'm not gonna be around people.
Speaker:I think that a lot of people feel when they quit drinking that they're
Speaker:gonna lose their friend base.
Speaker:I did, I lost a lot of friends.
Speaker:But then I realized that those were my drinking buddies.
Speaker:Those were my friends I could get wasted with.
Speaker:And then when I said, when I was getting sober, then that makes them look at
Speaker:their life, because then I'm not the sloppy one that they're hanging out with.
Speaker:They're the sloppy ones and they don't like that.
Speaker:And I lost a lot of friends.
Speaker:Um, but I realized that those were just my party buddies.
Speaker:They weren't really my friends, you know?
Speaker:And I just, uh, yeah.
Speaker:I mean, did you experience the
Speaker:same thing?
Speaker:Yeah, I stopped getting invited to things.
Speaker:Um, yeah, people do.
Speaker:I remember you were talking to me about that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:People stopped talking to me and I think it was a combination of they
Speaker:thought, you know, they shouldn't invite me because it might make me
Speaker:uncomfortable, or they don't wanna put me in a, So I think people didn't know
Speaker:like what to do with the sober person.
Speaker:And I think also, We just didn't have anything in common.
Speaker:Like it's okay for friendships to fade away.
Speaker:Like think about our criteria for having friends.
Speaker:Like if, if you didn't want to binge drink for many, many hours, like I
Speaker:had no interest in talking to you, and if you did wanna binge drink for
Speaker:many, many hours, cool, let's go.
Speaker:That's the only criteria.
Speaker:I don't care.
Speaker:, that's it.
Speaker:If you can go and like get drunk with me and keep up and you just wanna
Speaker:go all night, we're best friends.
Speaker:But when you take that away, like do you actually have anything in common?
Speaker:Like often?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:You don't and no.
Speaker:And like for anyone in this position, eventually not right away.
Speaker:I was able to flip it around and think like, what if they got sober and I
Speaker:didn't, I would have no interest.
Speaker:And hanging out with them because I, like I just said, I only wanna hang out
Speaker:with people that wanna get destroyed.
Speaker:. Why would I wanna hang out with a sober person?
Speaker:I'm gonna go drink a thousand drinks with a sober person.
Speaker:No, and especially like when I was questioning it the whole time
Speaker:too, like, I don't wanna hang, I wanna hang out with the people.
Speaker:Like at least I'm not as bad as that guy.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:That's who I wanna be friends with, not the sober person.
Speaker:So it's that too
Speaker:. I'm not as bad as that guy.
Speaker:I'm
Speaker:not as bad as that guy.
Speaker:Oh, I loved those people.
Speaker:And then I realized too, I realized people were saying that about me.
Speaker:Probably people were probably saying, at least I'm not as bad as Jill.
Speaker:And when I realized that, I was like, Wow, that's, That puts it in perspective,
Speaker:. Oh, I know.
Speaker:I know for a fact that, I mean, I remember I was working on a
Speaker:project and we were partying at the.
Speaker:Project.
Speaker:It was a party and it was a job that I did, but I was going to bed the night
Speaker:before I come off, like turning one off and I decided to go out with my friends.
Speaker:They're like, Come on out with us.
Speaker:And then I, I, you know, I was already like, woo lit up when I arrived
Speaker:and then I just remember somebody, I didn't really remember the day.
Speaker:It's not that I passed out or anything, I was just lit like a
Speaker:Christmas tree the whole time.
Speaker:And I remember saying something, Yeah, we kind of knew when you were
Speaker:eating a sub and it fell down on your shirt and you were like, Oh,
Speaker:like, I was like, Oh my God, I did
Speaker:that once I did that.
Speaker:And it was so embarrassing,
Speaker:, but I had no idea it happened.
Speaker:I didn't remember, I know that I just embarrassed myself and I
Speaker:was just so ashamed and it took me a long time to get over that.
Speaker:And um, yeah, I just, ugh, it was terrible.
Speaker:I mean, that was years ago, but you know, that didn't cause me to
Speaker:get to be like, Oh, I should stop.
Speaker:I was like, whatever.
Speaker:I mean, well actually I did stop.
Speaker:I stopped for like, I think I took like six months off again.
Speaker:I was like, Okay, I need to get this, rain this in and not have these experiences.
Speaker:But you know, it was back to usual, you know, back to normal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think that, you know, a, a again, it's always like that for
Speaker:me, it was like the stress release.
Speaker:It's like, okay, I've just pulled 30 working days in a row, and it's,
Speaker:and it's like, you know, they say, Okay, can you moderate your drinking?
Speaker:I think the, the better question is, can you moderate your life
Speaker:so you don't have to drink?
Speaker:Like, what does that look like?
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:That's what I learned to do.
Speaker:I learned to say, okay, to have to set boundaries with myself, to
Speaker:set boundaries with other people.
Speaker:And sometimes it, like, I'm a far from a perfect human, but sometimes I think that,
Speaker:you know, I, you know, and, and, and I do let people push my boundaries a lot.
Speaker:I'm a creative, I'm a naturally a people pleaser is as someone
Speaker:who comes through trauma, right?
Speaker:But I think that at the end of the day, You know, when I, when I set those
Speaker:boundaries, I was like, Okay, boom, now I can really, uh, now I can really get
Speaker:ahold of this and I can, because instead of regulating the drinking, which I can't
Speaker:regulate clearly, I'm gonna regulate the activity that leads me to drink.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, what that made me think of is like, we're always trying to get through life.
Speaker:We're just like hanging in, surviving the day, constantly
Speaker:need a reward for everything.
Speaker:Like, you lived another day in your life and now you need to be rewarded
Speaker:for, for making it through Tuesday.
Speaker:Um, but the way when I stopped drinking, I didn't know this until
Speaker:I stopped, but I realized like my life could actually be good.
Speaker:My life could be the good part.
Speaker:That could be the reward part.
Speaker:I don't need to have, like, my life doesn't have to be like
Speaker:a big giant piece of crap.
Speaker:And then I get this little treat at the end, you know,
Speaker:this little like drinking treat.
Speaker:It's like, Oh, good job.
Speaker:You lived like another horrible day in your life.
Speaker:Like, have a little bit of wine, like your life can be the good part.
Speaker:And that's, that's eventually what I, it took some time, but
Speaker:that's eventually what I realized.
Speaker:That's a
Speaker:beautiful statement.
Speaker:That is
Speaker:so true.
Speaker:It is.
Speaker:And it's so empowering when you realize like your life can be good.
Speaker:Like maybe it's gonna take some time to get there and cuz you
Speaker:know, we're not building like this amazing life while we're drinking
Speaker:all the time and like blowing it up.
Speaker:But you can, without alcohol around, you can build a life that
Speaker:you like and it might take you.
Speaker:Six months.
Speaker:It might take you two years, it might take you five years, whatever it is.
Speaker:But you can like get to a place where you're generally happy
Speaker:most days with your situation.
Speaker:And that is the, like, I wake up and I'm just like, Yes.
Speaker:I get to like, sometimes I can't sleep.
Speaker:I'm like so excited to just like wake up and just like live in my life, you know?
Speaker:I'm so excited about it.
Speaker:Where before I would wake up and I'd be like, Oh, this again.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So depressing.
Speaker:I'm so anyone who's, who's there, we see you and we feel for
Speaker:you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And you can get there.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:You can do it.
Speaker:I mean that's the, the big point of my podcast is you can make it
Speaker:through this unspeakable trauma and come out the other side.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I mean, you know, There, there are support systems, There are people
Speaker:that, there are people that have been through this before you.
Speaker:If you're sitting there struggling with this, and there are people that
Speaker:you can find and there are people that are not gonna judge you or
Speaker:make you feel bad because trust me, our stories are probably way worse.
Speaker:Way worse, , or we can match you a story for story.
Speaker:It's interesting you say you don't like to talk about that on your podcast cuz
Speaker:you don't like, and it's, it's almost like you feel like it might be a glorification.
Speaker:And I, I totally concur with that.
Speaker:It's, it's, you know, some people, you know, Oh, I don't
Speaker:like to think about that either.
Speaker:You know, I share that little meatball, sub fallen on my shirt, but I, I don't
Speaker:like to think about things like that.
Speaker:And it's embarrassing too.
Speaker:It's so embarrassing.
Speaker:It's embarrassing.
Speaker:You let something that, that is so preventable.
Speaker:I mean, because I, I was a bartender for years.
Speaker:I didn't drink.
Speaker:I mean, occasionally when I, when I say drink, I just, you
Speaker:know, I wasn't drinking, like I wouldn't drink while I worked.
Speaker:I would taste the drinks to make sure they were good.
Speaker:If I made something for special for someone, put a little
Speaker:straw on it, dip, okay, great.
Speaker:But I would never, you know, I wasn't like drinking while I was working
Speaker:like all my other fellow bartenders, I had a complete control over it.
Speaker:You, it's, it's so wild.
Speaker:And then I think once I harnessed that mentality again, said,
Speaker:Okay, I can do that again.
Speaker:You know, here I was, I could have drank all day working at a bar.
Speaker:They wouldn't have cared, you know, everybody was drinking.
Speaker:It wouldn't have mattered.
Speaker:And I realized that like, oh yeah, I can do that again.
Speaker:I can harness that in my life.
Speaker:And I think, you know, filling your life with activities that really fulfill you
Speaker:and enrich you to replace that, you know.
Speaker:What do you think about the replace replacement theory?
Speaker:A lot of people, you know, say what,
Speaker:what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker:People will try to replace alcohol with some other like thing.
Speaker:And I don't think that works.
Speaker:Like, I think people, you know, you'll see, I don't know if you saw this in
Speaker:those Facebook groups that you were in, but this used to make me so mad
Speaker:they'd be like, Oh, just have tea or have sparkling water in a pretty glass.
Speaker:And I'd be like, You don't understand.
Speaker:You don't understand anything.
Speaker:That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard in my entire life.
Speaker:Um, so I don't think you can just like, swap out your drink because
Speaker:alcohol is like doing something.
Speaker:Tea tea's not doing that.
Speaker:You know, only bad stuff is gonna do what alcohol did.
Speaker:Like sugar.
Speaker:That's another reason we gravitate towards it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But I think like adding things in, because when I drank, I removed everything.
Speaker:From my life that wasn't alcohol.
Speaker:I didn't, I lost all my interests.
Speaker:I lost all my hobbies.
Speaker:Um, I lost my friends that didn't wanna party.
Speaker:And I removed all of these things from my life so that I could just have my alcohol.
Speaker:And then when you try to stop for me, like I didn't have anything.
Speaker:I had like the bachelor and like a thousand hours of TV to watch every day.
Speaker:Like, that's gonna make you miss drinking.
Speaker:And you have to find, like, I tried Brazilian jiujitsu and like
Speaker:I choked out the instructor and I felt like so cool about it.
Speaker:But you have to like try.
Speaker:I, I wouldn't do that when I was drinking and have time for that.
Speaker:You can't drink while you do that.
Speaker:Especially that, Yeah, you can't do that hungover.
Speaker:So I think like adding in activities and then that replaces it.
Speaker:So, so kind of like a roundabout way, but I don't think you can say like, I'm not
Speaker:gonna have my wine, but I'm gonna have.
Speaker:Sparkling water in a pretty glass, Like that's not really
Speaker:gonna do it for you, right?
Speaker:It's not gonna do anything.
Speaker:You're gonna drink it, and it might work for like a day or two, and then you're
Speaker:gonna be like, Meh, where's the wine?
Speaker:Where's the real drink?
Speaker:Totally, totally.
Speaker:Or people will do it to, um, with na drinks.
Speaker:They'll try to drink na drinks instead of real drinks.
Speaker:And if you're like, some people can have like one non-alcoholic
Speaker:beer, and then it's like, cool.
Speaker:And it's, it's like a nice little social thing, and then they move on.
Speaker:But if you're slamming a six pack of Heineken Zeros in your house by
Speaker:yourself, that's a whole different thing.
Speaker:Now you're like, you're drinking for some outcome.
Speaker:Like you need to, you need to think about your intention for whatever
Speaker:you're bringing into your life and.
Speaker:Yeah, do something crazy.
Speaker:That's my advice.
Speaker:Something totally crazy.
Speaker:That's why I picked jujitsu, cuz I never played sports.
Speaker:I don't run, I'm not active.
Speaker:I didn't even know how to do a summeral when I went and I was like,
Speaker:what's the craziest thing I can do?
Speaker:And then I decided that is it.
Speaker:And it really pushed me outta my comfort zone.
Speaker:And it's a cool memory.
Speaker:Like I can tell people forever that I did it.
Speaker:So I would say pick something totally nuts and then just try it within reason.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:This is great.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Why not?
Speaker:Then you're distracted.
Speaker:Um, one last thing.
Speaker:Obviously you are married.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:and you were struggling with this while you were married.
Speaker:What do you say to spouse?
Speaker:Of people who are going through this, Like how do they, you know, it's
Speaker:obviously Al-Anon and things like that, but like outside of that, like how do
Speaker:they support their, what is the best way for them to support their partner who's
Speaker:struggling?
Speaker:That is so hard.
Speaker:Anyone who's in that situation like that is so hard to just, to watch
Speaker:the person that you love just like completely destroyed themselves.
Speaker:Um, what my husband did that I think was really helpful is he never shamed me.
Speaker:He never said like, I don't think you need another drink.
Speaker:Or like, Haven't you had enough to drink?
Speaker:Like he never made comments about my drinking.
Speaker:Cuz then that makes me drink more.
Speaker:If you're gonna come and maybe I've had enough.
Speaker:Well now I'm gonna have 10 more, so thank you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Thank you very much sir.
Speaker:Um, I think being careful, like not to inject more shame into that person's life.
Speaker:Because even if you don't know it, they do feel a lot of shame.
Speaker:And there are things like commenting on how much they're
Speaker:drinking, haven't you had enough?
Speaker:And things like that can add more shame.
Speaker:And so that was something helpful that he did.
Speaker:And he was just always there for me.
Speaker:Like I never felt like I was alone.
Speaker:Um, he always took care of me.
Speaker:So then when it came time where I really wanted to make a change,
Speaker:I felt so safe going to him.
Speaker:I felt, yeah, like there was no judgment.
Speaker:He wasn't gonna be like finally, like I knew he was just gonna support me.
Speaker:Um, and I think you can also kinda sneak attack.
Speaker:Your family member.
Speaker:Like if they start to complain about how bad they feel, instead of saying
Speaker:like, you know, maybe it's because you drank 10 beers last night.
Speaker:You could say, Why do you think you feel so bad today?
Speaker:Why do you think your anxiety is so bad?
Speaker:And ask questions because you telling us that our drinking is a
Speaker:problem is gonna make us retreat from you and wanna drink more.
Speaker:But the goal is to help us realize it's actually a problem.
Speaker:So being inquisitive and helping us, like become aware of the consequences
Speaker:will help like break through that denial.
Speaker:And also not protecting anyone from their consequences.
Speaker:Like if they're, if they have to call out of work sick, you
Speaker:don't make that call for them.
Speaker:They deal with those consequences.
Speaker:You don't like clean up their mess.
Speaker:Like they have to really see it.
Speaker:They have to see like, This is the outcome from my drinking.
Speaker:They have to have a clear idea and then they can like get
Speaker:out of the denial and stop.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:I mean that's, that is so key.
Speaker:That is so key.
Speaker:Building that trust with your partner and then that lays the
Speaker:foundation for them to get healthy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You want them to feel like they can come to you.
Speaker:Cuz if they try to do it alone and they're like unsuccessful, like it just support
Speaker:increases their chances of success.
Speaker:And if they can come to you and then also, you know, like all these books and
Speaker:resources and podcasts and like meetings, like, then you can help them and then
Speaker:they can like really make a change.
Speaker:That's wonderful.
Speaker:Uh, okay, last thing, What are you up to?
Speaker:So you just got back from podcast movement 22 in Dallas.
Speaker:What's like, what's next for you?
Speaker:What's on the horizon?
Speaker:I'm very busy.
Speaker:Um, As a business woman, , I, I love this.
Speaker:I own a podcast network, um, a very popular mental health podcast and I'm
Speaker:trying to grow it and get ridiculous amount of exposure for my awesome
Speaker:shows that are in the network.
Speaker:Really, I just wanna grow and I wanna help people eventually.
Speaker:I would love to write a book, but I think that's like far.
Speaker:I think you would, you should write a book too.
Speaker:I wanna write a book so badly.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That would be a good book.
Speaker:It's just the pod getting the podcast, the point where that can sustain.
Speaker:That is where I want to get to.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:it's a
Speaker:lot of work, but that's working my butt off for it, but sometimes there's some
Speaker:steps taken backwards, which is a problem.
Speaker:Um, this is great though.
Speaker:Um, so you got the network.
Speaker:How many shows do you have now?
Speaker:Um, I have four shows including mine, but I might have two more joining very
Speaker:soon and hopefully a lot more after
Speaker:that.
Speaker:And you're gonna increase that bill on, uh, Megaphone.
Speaker:Yeah, that megaphone bill is gonna be ridiculous.
Speaker:It's gonna hurt.
Speaker:It's a good thing.
Speaker:It's a good thing though.
Speaker:It's a good thing.
Speaker:I love this.
Speaker:Jill, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker:So, real quick, where can people find you?
Speaker:You have the Sober Powered Podcast and Sober Powered Media is your network.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But where else can
Speaker:they find you?
Speaker:Yeah, so if you search Sober Powered, you'll find me.
Speaker:If you wanna learn about my awesome network that's sober powered media,
Speaker:I worked very hard on my website.
Speaker:I'm very proud of it.
Speaker:It's, it's a great website.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I put my podcast movement, um, speaker picture on there yesterday.
Speaker:And I feel like, you know, like a cool girl.
Speaker:. You are a cool girl.
Speaker:You don't feel like one, You are one
Speaker:Maybe someday.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:that's great.
Speaker:Um, thank you so much, Jill, for your time.
Speaker:You have a great day.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I think that is about as honest of a conversation I can have, and Jill is just
Speaker:such a great support, a great inspiration.
Speaker:And again, if you guys are struggling or any, you know, someone who's struggling
Speaker:with, with, you know, alcohol or substance abuse and is looking for some help or
Speaker:just to engage in a community that it doesn't involve like a 12 step program or,
Speaker:you know, a sort of religious guidance, it's just sort of on your own accord
Speaker:what you want to do and have some people help you hold yourself accountable,
Speaker:uh, you can find that through Jill's, uh, Sober powered media through Sober
Speaker:Powered podcast and through her network of people and myself, I'm always open.
Speaker:You guys wanna DM me, I'll read it.
Speaker:, I'll talk to you.
Speaker:Uh, I'm happy to support you guys.
Speaker:Um, so yeah, I, uh, you know, I, this was a conversation was a long time coming.
Speaker:A lot of people asked me about stuff like this.
Speaker:I'm gonna tell you something, I don't miss drinking at all.
Speaker:Um, my finances don't either, . Um, you know, I think when you start to
Speaker:think about it, and if it's taking a toll on your life and you wanna make a
Speaker:change, I'm here to support you on that.
Speaker:And if you don't, that's totally cool too.
Speaker:I'm, I'm with all of it.
Speaker:Um, I just support you guys and I love that you support me and I'm here
Speaker:for you and, uh, whatever you need.
Speaker:So, uh, on that note, I'm Collier Landry and this is moving Past Murder.
Speaker:Thanks y'all.
Speaker:This podcast is made possible by support from listeners just like you.
Speaker:Please subscribe via Apple Podcast, Spotify audible.
Speaker:Find us on YouTube, youtube.com/call callier Landry.
Speaker:The film of Murder in Mansfield is available on Investigation Discovery,
Speaker:Discovery Plus and Amazon Prime Video.
Speaker:This podcast is a production of Don't Touch My Radio.
Speaker:Please visit m pmm podcast.com to show your support today.